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Mac Pro gets half-assed “update”

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Re: Mac Pro gets half-assed “update”

#251

Post by jrockway »

mitchty wrote: post #218
gurkendoktor wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those were really early decisions. What about Mini DisplayPort/Thunderbolt? I still rather had DVI on my Mac Mini. What about Ethernet? Anyone who needs it in a wired company is likely stuck with it. And one more ugly piece of plastic that many people ruin their Macs with - USB 3G sticks, because no Mac series can hold a SIM card, even though Apple has successfully pushed for a more compact standard.

So 3g radios magically work through sim cards now? I actually think not including CDMA/GSM protocol of the year antennaes is a better future proofing move.

The radios typically included in new laptops are pretty sophisticated, with the right firmware, one card works on pretty much any network in the world.

Re: Mac Pro gets half-assed “update”

#252

Post by gurkendoktor »

kamaal wrote: post #199
robomartin wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with the early attempt Apple made at inviting the clone market is that they didn't give it time to evolve. The first wave or two of IBM clones were a mess. A disaster. Compatibility problems galore. People who buy crap don't continue to buy it and they sure as hell don't recommend it. The crap PC clones died a quick death. It didn't take long for the market to evolve and "grow up". Companies like Compaq s…

Apple isn't successful because of Macbooks, Mac minis or iMacs. Bulk of Apple's success is from their iDevices and its surrounding ecosystem. iPod, iPod touch, iPhone and iTunes app/music sharing infrastructure. So in many ways Apple isn't a computer company anymore. Its more like Sony nowadays. What you will see in the future might be computers dying a slow death in the Apple ecosystem. Expect things like TV, Stereo…

Actually, Samsung sells pretty much everything a company could possibly sell, even weapons. I know you mean Samsung Consumer Electronics, but it's a tricky example because the network effects (or lack thereof) between all of Samsung's subsidiaries are not obvious.

Also unlike Samsung, Apple depends on OS X as their developer OS. The whole WWDC was praising developers for helping iOS take off, and I think rightly so.

Of course, Apple does not depend on the Mac Pro.

Re: Mac Pro gets half-assed “update”

#253

Post by jacques_chester »

reitzensteinm wrote: post #241
jacques_chester wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slower per-core, certainly. But for some workloads more cores is worth it.

I should have been more specific. They're so much slower per thread that they're still slower overall even in heavily multithreaded tasks. In this Anandtech review, the 16 core Opteron trades blows with a six core Xeon (clocked at 2.3ghz vs 2.66ghz): http://www.anandtech.com/show/5058/amds-opteron-interlagos-6... The 8 core DP Xeons weren't out yet when that review took place, but the Sandy Bridge chip was a big impr…

I'm not sure it's such a slam dunk -- a brief scan of the virtual machine benchmark didn't seem to have a more heavily concurrent load. Plus the Opterons are substantially cheaper.

If I was building a server I'd probably look at the Intel parts, the cost/performance curve is justifiable. But my personal case right now is running lots of test VMs simultaneously on a workstation, the Opterons are more attractive.

Re: Mac Pro gets half-assed “update”

#254

Post by lloeki »

miahi wrote: post #233
mitchty wrote: post #218

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So 3g radios magically work through sim cards now? I actually think not including CDMA/GSM protocol of the year antennaes is a better future proofing move.

Future proofing a box with a non-user replaceable battery? They don't want future proof, they just have other gadgets to sell to the people that want mobile connectivity.

> Future proofing a box with a non-user replaceable battery

My battery lasts 6 to 7 hours and is more than two years old. I can't remember the last time I had to stay six hours straight without having a plug nearby long enough to pump up some serious juice (and remember, charging is non-linear, the first 80% come up in a blink). Swapping batteries is a niche, yet it's the standard in PC land. I'd rather have a couple more hours in a thinner enclosure than twice but at the cost of lugging around a bulkier design, along with the second battery. Plus recharging two batteries is a chore.

Re: Mac Pro gets half-assed “update”

#255

Post by reitzensteinm »

jacques_chester wrote: post #253
reitzensteinm wrote: post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I should have been more specific. They're so much slower per thread that they're still slower overall even in heavily multithreaded tasks. In this Anandtech review, the 16 core Opteron trades blows with a six core Xeon (clocked at 2.3ghz vs 2.66ghz): http://www.anandtech.com/show/5058/amds-opteron-interlagos-6... The 8 core DP Xeons weren't out yet when that review took place, but the Sandy Bridge chip was a big impr…

I'm not sure it's such a slam dunk -- a brief scan of the virtual machine benchmark didn't seem to have a more heavily concurrent load. Plus the Opterons are substantially cheaper. If I was building a server I'd probably look at the Intel parts, the cost/performance curve is justifiable. But my personal case right now is running lots of test VMs simultaneously on a workstation, the Opterons are more attractive.

I should probably have linked to Sandy Bridge EP vs Bulldozer, which is much more lopsided. The 6C holds its own nearly everywhere, with comparable price and much lower power usage, and there's always the option of bumping up to 8C when needed:

http://www.anandtech.com/show/5553/the-xeon-e52600-dual-sand...

This latest generation was not favourable for AMD. 16 core Interlagos in many cases barely outperforms the old 12 core Magny Cours.

Re: Mac Pro gets half-assed “update”

#256

Post by tedunangst »

EvanKelly wrote: post #93
ams6110 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps they would save more by discontinuing the line than they make in profits on it.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by this. Any profit, however small, will exceed any savings you get. I guess maybe we have different assumptions about what "profit" means. I'm assuming that when someone refers to a line of products as profitable, they are taking into account all administrative costs as well.

The factory could be used to make other even more profitable widgets. The guy who writes hardware drivers for it could be writing drivers for some other next big thing. If you're offered the choice between a penny and a dollar, you choose the dollar, even if the penny is "all profit".

Re: Mac Pro gets half-assed “update”

#258

Post by ktizo »

chipotle_coyote wrote: post #249
ktizo wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They practically give away the results of their development costs on OSX. Most of the development was already done for them in the development of Open-BSD.

I really wish people would get over this meme. (1) You're thinking of FreeBSD. Not OpenBSD. A lot of the command line utilities Unix nerds would use in the terminal are ported from FreeBSD. (2) The kernel, Darwin, is NOT based on FreeBSD. Darwin is a direct descendant of NextStep, based on the Mach microkernel. (3) And pretty much all of the GUI and indeed the whole Cocoa API are also from Apple/Next. Not FreeBSD. Es…

(1) you are probably right.

(2) the Mach kernel was originally developed for BSD.

(3) true, they did make a shiny wimp variant.

(4) is that why stuff like rename is not there? The man page for rename is there, but rename isn't for some reason though. I had to rename lots of things and I had to write a script and everything.

(5) an apple is a fruit, not an animal.

Re: Mac Pro gets half-assed “update”

#259

Post by cheatercheater »

AncientPC wrote: post #248
cheatercheater wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe some countries require vendors to supply the computer with an OS installed; in this case not needing to include a half-assed version of Windows Home Underwhelm Experience can help them cut away those 10% of $300 low-end models. There's a reason many netbooks come with linux and it's not user-friendliness. Additionally, more and more governments pass laws that require their institutions to use linux or open…

OEMs get paid for pre-installing bloatware onto machines which can add up to $40+ per machine. Offering Linux costs them money (in addition to R&D, support, training, marketing, etc).

Right. I wish we were in a world where you didn't have to remind me of that, and I didn't instantly want to forget about it.

Re: Mac Pro gets half-assed “update”

#260

Post by T-Winsnes »

robomartin wrote: post #98

This illustrates the issue I highlighted in another thread: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4097141 The fact that Apple keeps hardware and, increasingly, software, so tightly controlled leads to a situation like that of this "new" Mac Pro. If the Apple hardware ecosystem were open like that of Windows you'd have major companies all over the world evolving the platform in wonderful ways. Performance would go up an…

Even though I agree with your sentiment, you're comparing a desktop/server with a laptop. One is built to be portable, and will have big tradeoffs because of this.
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