Does anyone have a recommendation of a good starting point, outside the works of Shakespeare?
Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
21–30 of 169 posts
Re: Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
#22The well-known linguist John McWhorter argues that Shakespeare's plays should be translated into modern English since they are written in a language that we effectively no longer speak. "Indeed, the irony today is that the Russians, the French and other people in foreign countries possess Shakespeare to a much greater extent than we do, for the simple reason that unlike us, they get to enjoy Shakespeare in the langua…
Well, he's wrong, and that's why there are so few "modern English" productions put on. And also why Shakespeare plays in the original language continue to live. When you see it performed live, you still get the gist. The language is still beautiful. That's the point. More to the point, the audiences would not increase at all if they were translated into modern terms. On the other hand, no one in the theater minds if…
> and that's why there are so few "modern English" productions put on
Modern productions of shakespeare or even victorian era stories constantly make their way into Hollywood. "Clueless" is just a modernized version of "Emma"
Re: Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
#23The well-known linguist John McWhorter argues that Shakespeare's plays should be translated into modern English since they are written in a language that we effectively no longer speak. "Indeed, the irony today is that the Russians, the French and other people in foreign countries possess Shakespeare to a much greater extent than we do, for the simple reason that unlike us, they get to enjoy Shakespeare in the langua…
Shakespeare is modern English and perfectly comprehensible. Beowulf is not.
Yes, there are some words that have changed (like his example of "character") but those are few. There are always difficulties. There are lots of words that have different meanings in British, American and other forms of English ("bum", "fag", etc.), or that are offensive in some places but not others, different usages.....
The way to make Shakespeare is and fun is to watch it (on stage, or film). I have been to several Shakespeare plays in the last year and there were none where I felt I was just "catching the basic gist". The jokes worked for a start.
Re: Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
#24The well-known linguist John McWhorter argues that Shakespeare's plays should be translated into modern English since they are written in a language that we effectively no longer speak. "Indeed, the irony today is that the Russians, the French and other people in foreign countries possess Shakespeare to a much greater extent than we do, for the simple reason that unlike us, they get to enjoy Shakespeare in the langua…
Shakespeare’s plays are already in modern English
Re: Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
#25Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, he's wrong, and that's why there are so few "modern English" productions put on. And also why Shakespeare plays in the original language continue to live. When you see it performed live, you still get the gist. The language is still beautiful. That's the point. More to the point, the audiences would not increase at all if they were translated into modern terms. On the other hand, no one in the theater minds if…
> and that's why there are so few "modern English" productions put on Modern productions of shakespeare or even victorian era stories constantly make their way into Hollywood. "Clueless" is just a modernized version of "Emma"
This is reductive. Clueless is certainly not "just" a modernised version of Emma. It takes broad strokes inspiration from the plot of Emma, but the charm of the film isn't something that can be reduced to the original novel. The application of a comedy of manners onto the contemporary setting, combining broad farce with naturalistic performances, skewering (while also benefiting from) consumer fetishism etc. The point here being that one could write a million bowdlerised versions of Emma and never land on a Clueless. Modern English Shakespeare translations are readily available. It takes genius to make one that rivals the original in popularity.
Re: Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
#26Link is down. Reading Shakespeare in high school put me off it for life. I had to look it up just now to check if he's "Elizabethan". I knew what most of the words meant, just not in that order. I couldn't make sense of what was happening in the plot, or even the smaller scale of individual lines. I never thought I was particularly bad (or good) at English, but all my classmates seemed to understand it. I just could…
I think the old language gets in the way, but the genius it has (IMO) is in the characters. You could completely believe that a person would act they way that they do in the play.
Re: Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
#27Earlier quoted context omitted.
Well, he's wrong, and that's why there are so few "modern English" productions put on. And also why Shakespeare plays in the original language continue to live. When you see it performed live, you still get the gist. The language is still beautiful. That's the point. More to the point, the audiences would not increase at all if they were translated into modern terms. On the other hand, no one in the theater minds if…
> and that's why there are so few "modern English" productions put on Modern productions of shakespeare or even victorian era stories constantly make their way into Hollywood. "Clueless" is just a modernized version of "Emma"
I started with "Clueless" and then realized, "Oh, hey, that's Jane Austen."
Re: Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
#28Earlier quoted context omitted.
> and that's why there are so few "modern English" productions put on Modern productions of shakespeare or even victorian era stories constantly make their way into Hollywood. "Clueless" is just a modernized version of "Emma"
This is reductive. Clueless is certainly not "just" a modernised version of Emma. It takes broad strokes inspiration from the plot of Emma, but the charm of the film isn't something that can be reduced to the original novel. The application of a comedy of manners onto the contemporary setting, combining broad farce with naturalistic performances, skewering (while also benefiting from) consumer fetishism etc. The poin…
> This is reductive
And this is a meaningless insult. One might say it needs translation into Normal People English.
> The point here being that one could write a million bowdlerised versions of Emma
Who cares? The point is, the plots and characters are readily adaptable into modern settings, and that IS a valid modernization of Shakespeare, as McWhorter wants. There are a million ways to do that, and godspeed to all of them.
Having dukes and queens and earls speaking modern English is just stupid.
Re: Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
#29The well-known linguist John McWhorter argues that Shakespeare's plays should be translated into modern English since they are written in a language that we effectively no longer speak. "Indeed, the irony today is that the Russians, the French and other people in foreign countries possess Shakespeare to a much greater extent than we do, for the simple reason that unlike us, they get to enjoy Shakespeare in the langua…
Well, he's wrong, and that's why there are so few "modern English" productions put on. And also why Shakespeare plays in the original language continue to live. When you see it performed live, you still get the gist. The language is still beautiful. That's the point. More to the point, the audiences would not increase at all if they were translated into modern terms. On the other hand, no one in the theater minds if…
Shakespeare is best appreciated in the original pronunciation (OP). I'm a little disappointed that OP Shakespeare continues to be a little niche, given that it's necessary for many of the rhymes and puns. Personally, I think it just sounds better than received pronunciation (RP).
I think that's one of the strongest arguments against modernizing the language. Shakespeare has a flow, and much verse, that is lost in any translation, or has to be creatively and intelligently reproduced across a language barrier.
Re: Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
#30Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is reductive. Clueless is certainly not "just" a modernised version of Emma. It takes broad strokes inspiration from the plot of Emma, but the charm of the film isn't something that can be reduced to the original novel. The application of a comedy of manners onto the contemporary setting, combining broad farce with naturalistic performances, skewering (while also benefiting from) consumer fetishism etc. The poin…
> This is reductive And this is a meaningless insult. One might say it needs translation into Normal People English. > The point here being that one could write a million bowdlerised versions of Emma Who cares? The point is, the plots and characters are readily adaptable into modern settings, and that IS a valid modernization of Shakespeare, as McWhorter wants. There are a million ways to do that, and godspeed to all…
"reductive" isn't an insult. And note the "just" in the parent post. It is an adaptation, but it is more than just that.