If you extend this to Restoration, Pepys went to the theatre several times a week. About 50% he was unimpressed by.
Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
11–20 of 169 posts
Re: Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
#12Link is down. Reading Shakespeare in high school put me off it for life. I had to look it up just now to check if he's "Elizabethan". I knew what most of the words meant, just not in that order. I couldn't make sense of what was happening in the plot, or even the smaller scale of individual lines. I never thought I was particularly bad (or good) at English, but all my classmates seemed to understand it. I just could…
Yeah it's an interesting question. Of course these days since it's public domain you could have chat GPT give you every sentence with a modern translation alongside.
It's sometimes hard to tell when people advocate for something esoteric if they are being hipster (e.g "Goldplated audiocables on a record player") [i.e. advocating for something monetarily/intellectually inaccessible as a form of flaunting wealth/intellect] or if it's a genuine recommendation.
I bet a clever person could come up with some ways to test each hypothesis.
Re: Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
#13The well-known linguist John McWhorter argues that Shakespeare's plays should be translated into modern English since they are written in a language that we effectively no longer speak.
"Indeed, the irony today is that the Russians, the French and other people in foreign countries possess Shakespeare to a much greater extent than we do, for the simple reason that unlike us, they get to enjoy Shakespeare in the language they speak."
"'But translated Shakespeare wouldn’t be Shakespeare!' one might object. To which the answer is, to an extent, yes. However, we would never complain a translation of Beowulf 'isn’t Beowulf'—of course it isn’t, in the strict sense, but we know that without translation, we would not have access to Beowulf at all."
His full discussion is here, and is worth reading: https://www.americantheatre.org/2010/01/01/its-time-to-trans...
Re: Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
#14"OP" (original pronounciation) can help bring out some of the original bawdiness; it makes the puns pop: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQc5ZpAoU4c https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y2QYGEwM1Sk Staging, blocking, and competent acting can make the jokes a lot more explicit (and also, explicit!) Our ancestors, on the whole, weren't highfalutin capital-A Art people, and certainly not where common entertainment is concern…
That As You Like It pun on hours/whores ripe/rape and rot/rut was new to me; thanks for sharing.
Re: Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
#15Link is down. Reading Shakespeare in high school put me off it for life. I had to look it up just now to check if he's "Elizabethan". I knew what most of the words meant, just not in that order. I couldn't make sense of what was happening in the plot, or even the smaller scale of individual lines. I never thought I was particularly bad (or good) at English, but all my classmates seemed to understand it. I just could…
I was the same as you. Now I think I didn't care enough about it to put in the effort.
Re: Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
#16Link is down. Reading Shakespeare in high school put me off it for life. I had to look it up just now to check if he's "Elizabethan". I knew what most of the words meant, just not in that order. I couldn't make sense of what was happening in the plot, or even the smaller scale of individual lines. I never thought I was particularly bad (or good) at English, but all my classmates seemed to understand it. I just could…
Here's what I'd say to you and others who feel the same way: personally, I think Shakespeare really only comes alive in a live performance where characters have additional context to help you understand what's happening. I think Much Ado About Nothing is one of the most enjoyable performances I've ever seen, but reading Much Ado About Nothing several years earlier only made me resent Shakespeare as it does for so many. Shakespeare's works weren't intended to be read by audiences, yet for some reason that is the primary way we ask young people to experience with it.
The above is not an argument against translating Shakespeare to modern English, which I also support.
Re: Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
#17The well-known linguist John McWhorter argues that Shakespeare's plays should be translated into modern English since they are written in a language that we effectively no longer speak. "Indeed, the irony today is that the Russians, the French and other people in foreign countries possess Shakespeare to a much greater extent than we do, for the simple reason that unlike us, they get to enjoy Shakespeare in the langua…
I can see his point. That being said, part of what is fun about reading Elizabethan literature in a relatively original style (with helpful annotations) is that I can see configurations of English I’ve never encountered before, configurations that are alien and yet familiar because they are the ancestor of the very words and phrases I use today.
Re: Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
#18Link is down. Reading Shakespeare in high school put me off it for life. I had to look it up just now to check if he's "Elizabethan". I knew what most of the words meant, just not in that order. I couldn't make sense of what was happening in the plot, or even the smaller scale of individual lines. I never thought I was particularly bad (or good) at English, but all my classmates seemed to understand it. I just could…
I was the same as you. Now I think I didn't care enough about it to put in the effort.
This definitely describes me as well. I'm not sure how much effort it would actually take. I never managed to gain so much as a foothold on anything. So I guess I have some idea of a lower bound. But probably, I would not consider it to be worth the effort.
It's interesting to me thinking back on high school from decades ago. I remember so few of the details. But I distinctly remember trying and failing to read Shakespeare. I remember my sense of resentment for being asked to read such an incomprehensible word salad.
But yeah, at this point, I have a lot of other stuff going on. It's not a priority for me. I would need to have it spoon-fed to me, and quickly. That's probably not even possible.
Re: Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
#19The well-known linguist John McWhorter argues that Shakespeare's plays should be translated into modern English since they are written in a language that we effectively no longer speak. "Indeed, the irony today is that the Russians, the French and other people in foreign countries possess Shakespeare to a much greater extent than we do, for the simple reason that unlike us, they get to enjoy Shakespeare in the langua…
Shakespeare's plays should be translated into modern English
I've been running through the works of Shakespeare translated into modern English[0]. The original text is next to the new stuff and annotations are present when translations are weird or questionable. I'd highly recommend this for anyone who wants to read his stuff but doesn't have the time to look up every third word.
https://www.litcharts.com/shakescleare/shakespeare-translati...
Re: Making Elizabethan plays understandable and fun to read
#20The well-known linguist John McWhorter argues that Shakespeare's plays should be translated into modern English since they are written in a language that we effectively no longer speak. "Indeed, the irony today is that the Russians, the French and other people in foreign countries possess Shakespeare to a much greater extent than we do, for the simple reason that unlike us, they get to enjoy Shakespeare in the langua…
Well, he's wrong, and that's why there are so few "modern English" productions put on. And also why Shakespeare plays in the original language continue to live. When you see it performed live, you still get the gist.
The language is still beautiful. That's the point. More to the point, the audiences would not increase at all if they were translated into modern terms.
On the other hand, no one in the theater minds if you adapt the plot into something else entirely.
Ran (King Lear)
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0089881/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_3...
10 Things I Hate About You (The Taming of the Shrew)