I'm mostly impressed this person has an SP4 that still has a working battery and no screen issues.
A Review of Linux on Surface Pro 4
181–190 of 229 posts
Re: A Review of Linux on Surface Pro 4
#182Earlier quoted context omitted.
That seems likely. I know that firmware is one of the big differences between System76 laptops and the version that Clevo subsequently offers with Windows. I think the chips can vary sometimes too. Just from an ACPI perspective, I'd expect the Linux variant to (at a minimum) be built with the Intel compiler and the Windows one with Microsoft's. It is likely that there are far more differences, though.
The biggest problem with System76 laptops: their screens. $1400 for a laptop with 1920x1080 at 60hz in 2024 is a joke. $200 more gets you a 3024x1964 @ 120hz, with an M3 processor and the ability to get warranty service walk-in anywhere around the world.
I agree that a better screen would be great, and walk-in service anywhere in the world would be fantastic.
But I want a Linux laptop, not Windows or OSX. I also want a computer that obeys me, not some megacorp (not unrelated to the previous point.) I also want to not fight it all the time.
Re: A Review of Linux on Surface Pro 4
#183Disables Swap and Zram, gets OOM killed, surprised pikachu face Joking aside, is there an actual legitimate reason to do this on a workstation? I understand why you would want to disable swap on something like a kubernetes cluster node but in my head, heaving at-least zram enabled is a good thing on a workstation so you *don't* get OOM killed... I call on thee, Linux wizards of HN, to help me understand the reasoning…
Don't know if it's "legitimate", but I've got 64GB of RAM. Allocating 16/32/64/128GB of NVME storage to swap is mostly just a waste of disk space for me. When I had swap enabled, it was constantly showing 0 used. (Not "pretty much none", literally "0.0".) Further, if I'm trying to use more than 64GB of RAM... I'm fine with things getting OOM killed. I don't know that I've ever had anything OOM-killed when something w…
Similar opinion here on my destop. I was running 128gb, only exceeded 64gb a handful of times. That said, my RAM started causing lots of issues (thought my ssd was going bad). I only bought 64gb to replace it with as I felt the extra cost wasn't worth it to maintain, also likely to upgrade early-mid next year.
Re: A Review of Linux on Surface Pro 4
#184Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://system76.com/laptops
Don't waste your time. 1920x1080p @60hz in 2024...
This is such an elitist attitude, and I'd like to see less of it.
The vast majority of users aren't going to be bothered by those screen specs. For many coming from low-end hardware, it's actually an upgrade. Most work won't be significantly impacted by increasing the refresh rate, and while better resolution can be helpful if you keep multiple windows on the screen, most programs still feel tailored to 1920x1080 screens. Office workers writing emails, reports, purchase orders, and basic spreadsheets aren't likely to notice a better refresh rate and they're more likely to get a positive impact from turning a monitor vertical to fit more of a page on their screens.
Don't get me wrong, I use two 2560x1440p monitors at 144Hz at home, but I honestly get just as much work done on my dual 1080p 60Hz monitors at my desk at work. Saying that a laptop with 1080p@60hz is a waste is elitist and unnecessary in my opinion.
Re: A Review of Linux on Surface Pro 4
#185I know this doesn't fit the author's goals but I still think the trick with the surface line is using WSL instead of trying to run native Linux. Things have improved over time but when I was using my Surface Pro 4, Linux support was still pretty lacking. Maybe things will get better now that they're practically EOL with Win10 ending next year and no support for Win11. Unfortunately my SSD started to fail and battery…
I'm actually rather fine with what WSL can do. Hell, many of the tools I use run fine on Windows itself. But for me, the biggest shortcoming of this arrangement is having to put up with Windows' UX. I hate every single second I have to interact with this steaming pile of crap.
Largely the same here... I've been split windows+wsl and mac the past few years for work, and while I feel WSL makes windows usable, I'd rather run Linux directly than either. Muscle memory on a Mac is often painful to deal with (us-ansi 104 keyboard).
Re: A Review of Linux on Surface Pro 4
#186Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm actually rather fine with what WSL can do. Hell, many of the tools I use run fine on Windows itself. But for me, the biggest shortcoming of this arrangement is having to put up with Windows' UX. I hate every single second I have to interact with this steaming pile of crap.
This so much. I've run Linux in all my desktop machines for 10+ years. When I was younger it was mainly due to ideology, but now I really don't care. Although most linux distros still have quirks (bluetooth issues, sleep/resume issues, no hibernation out of the box, high battery consumption, among a plethora a of other papercuts) I am sticking with it mainly because windows ux just sux so much. Every new computer I b…
Win2K was pretty great, I do like aspects of the Win7+ app-bar though.
Re: A Review of Linux on Surface Pro 4
#187Earlier quoted context omitted.
This so much. I've run Linux in all my desktop machines for 10+ years. When I was younger it was mainly due to ideology, but now I really don't care. Although most linux distros still have quirks (bluetooth issues, sleep/resume issues, no hibernation out of the box, high battery consumption, among a plethora a of other papercuts) I am sticking with it mainly because windows ux just sux so much. Every new computer I b…
> Although most linux distros still have quirks (bluetooth issues, sleep/resume issues, no hibernation out of the box, high battery consumption, among a plethora a of other papercuts) I am sticking with it mainly because windows ux just sux so much. Heh, as usual, YMMV. My bluetooth headphones actually work reliably on Linux (with LDAC support!), while on Windows I usually have to fiddle with them for a few minutes u…
On linux, I have to switch my headphone mode when going in/out of web calls. It doesn't auto-switch to mono-mode when the mic is in use by an application.
Re: A Review of Linux on Surface Pro 4
#188Had one issued for work. Absolutely hated working on it. Though that was probably more a mismatch with work requirement (heavy excel use + teams = deathly slow). A lighter OS plus lighter use could be fine.
It's unfortunate because I found that the Surface Pro "expensive" models are gerat, but the lower end really can't handle much of any workflow (dreaded latency spikes) and it leads to loads of people just having a middling impression of a product that theoretically could capture a lot of the high end Windows market IMO
Yeah I liked the polish on them. I don’t recall which one it was. The mid range i5 I think. This was beginning of covid so IT just issued whatever they could get regardless of suitability. But yeah gigantic formula heavy excels kill even desktops let alone tablets.
I had it swapped for a surface laptop. Forget what exactly but similar generation.
That had active cooling which I suspect made the difference. Still slow but somewhat tolerable
Re: A Review of Linux on Surface Pro 4
#189I run Ubuntu on a Dell XPS 13 without any issues as far as I can tell. I've done almost no tweaking. I just do periodic software and firmware updates. I close the lid, throw it my bag, open it hours later, or the next day and I'm right back to where I was. The experience as close to Mac-like as I've ever experienced outside of Apple. But I still do wish someone would make a Linux laptop that's as tightly integrated w…
> But I still do wish someone would make a Linux laptop that's as tightly integrated with the hardware as macOS is on a MacBook.
I feel like the forces around device driver development conspire to make sure this rarely happens, that is, we can’t have “commodity” hardware that has “cutting edge” device drivers because the time and expense of developing the driver isn’t justified with commodity pricing.
Re: A Review of Linux on Surface Pro 4
#190Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have Thinkpad which is supposedly built to run ubuntu as well and even certified for RHEL and Ubuntu. It doesn't work so good, though. It works, but there are rough edges around sleeping, external displays, power management. I feel that it has nothing to do with manufacturer, though, just not good enough Linux support for laptops.
> It works, but there are rough edges around sleeping, external displays, power management. Windows has these rough edges, too, though. It's actually pretty shocking that here in 2024, PC manufacturers and OS vendors are still struggling with basics like sleep/wakeup. Last job I had with Windows laptops, everyone would walk around the office from meeting to meeting with their laptops propped open because nobody could…
> Somehow, only Apple has seemed to be able to solve this Herculean problem.
Bit of a stab in the dark here but I would assume ARM has at least something to do with this? Tablets, phones, etc. get standby a lot better than x86 systems seem to. My pre-M1 Macbook Pro does not handle standby well but my partner's M2 Macbook Air lasts for forever and handles sleep etc. well. The lower power consumption in "standby mode" on ARM seems like at least part of the picture for why Apple gets this so much better. I bet it's part of why Windows is trying to release their ARM variant and have been working on it for 10+ years