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For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

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Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#251

Post by _heimdall »

robin_reala wrote: post #242
_heimdall wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If someone's paying you to say something, it's a conflict of interest and illegal. That already misses a huge problem though, I don't pay Mozilla for Firefox and I don't pay most online sites and services that gobble up my data and sell it off.

Mozilla has never given us a choice to pay for Firefox.

Sure, but I don't think that really changes anything here. The idea of a law that bans advertising when the customer pays you would miss a huge portion of advertising and data collection including Firefox.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#252

Post by latexr »

ninjin wrote: post #234
latexr wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How should browser development be funded? One of the most common Mozilla complaints I see on the web is that you cannot fund Firefox development directly. People want to give money to it, but cannot. Which makes sense, I guess. Anecdotally, Mozilla is by far the company I know with the most vocal users that get completely ignored.

Come now, let us be realistic, no one and nothing funds browser development other than advertisement: https://ladybird.org/#sponsors

That is provably false. Safari isn’t funded by advertising, neither is Orion, or LibreWolf, or any number of other smaller open-source browsers.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#253

Post by rc_mob »

southernplaces7 wrote: post #232

One of the few things about Firefox that made me attempt to tolerate its repeatedly slow, shitty performance and tendency to slow my whole device down, was the privacy angle. With that gone, why bother? Might as well use Chrome. At least it's light and fairly quick.

Eh? Chrome is famously bulky and a memory hog

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#254

Post by A4ET8a8uTh0 »

otachack wrote: post #243
jellykid wrote: post #200

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it comes to the internet... I'd prefer it to stay like the wild west. Least amount of regulation beyond something like net neutrality. People forget that the reason we have all of these "free" services is because of ads and that's coming from someone who hates ads. Every streaming subscription I have, I pay for the ad-free service. Let the people who don't know how to install a browser extension or change a few…

I have a feeling that is most people out there. I observed a friend of mine click on a malicious ad link recently in front of me when driving a presentation for a community meeting. It was shown as an overlay for a seemingly harmless site I found. In my home with a pihole I didn't see any of the ads. I felt terrible that I was partially responsible for her clicking it. This knowledge and habit of ad-blocking and secu…

I agree; it seems worth it. My wife, who resisted dropping cable for the longest time, now prefers adless streaming and asks if wifi is down, because ads popped on her phone. If it has a downside, it is that my kid now is fascinated by ads, when we are in the wild. She normally does not see them and thus has no internal firewall built up.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#255

Post by _heimdall »

alemanek wrote: post #235
_heimdall wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't need more laws to solve this if your concern is a more harsh punishment for data leaks, we need to remove existing laws that limit the damages a company can be liable for and we need consumers that care enough to sue when they are harmed.

That is what I am saying above. Full liability for the data stored and shared with others. Transitive liability would need to be a new law though as I don’t believe that currently exists. EDIT: forgot to mention consumers don’t need to care much for this to be effective. If there are damages to be had law firms are incentivized to file class action lawsuits and recruit affected customers. So, there is an incentivized…

> Transitive liability would need to be a new law though as I don’t believe that currently exists.

That likely would end up just being case law rather than legislation. Meaning, a lawsuit can be filed for it today and its up to the courts to decide if that liability is reasonable.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#256

Post by paddim8 »

different_base wrote: post #69
Ygg2 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why Ladybird? Why not Servo?

I appreciate Ladybird's initiative. But if they work with Servo, Ladybird can build the browser and Servo can focus on the engine. Also we can avoid C++ nightmare. Everybody wins.

Ladybird is all about the engine. It's progressing faster than servo

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#257

Post by carlosjobim »

lofaszvanitt wrote: post #236
temporarely wrote: post #162

Enough of this waiting for virtuous entities to address legitimate concerns of the public. The "ad industry" is a cancer and we need legal protection against this "industry". The solution is political not technical and definitely can not be left to "the market". Haven't you had enough?

[flagged]

Yes, yes! Excellent! Then that system can also be improved, so that important websites get more money from a visit because they need the support more. For example the Arch Linux wiki. And also the system should have a blocklist so that dangerous and undemocratic websites do not get any money from the visitors.

Also, individuals who are richer should have more of their salary deducted, since they can afford it, and people who have low income or belong to groups who need special protection should not have to pay, instead they should be paid a monthly internet allowance by the government, which can increase if they visit websites who are beneficial to them and to society. For example the Arch Linux wiki.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#258

Post by freeone3000 »

mightyham wrote: post #204
3l3ktr4 wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>And Mozilla leadership is associated with radical left politics, just as an extra. Do you have proof for this? I'd be curious. I also fail to see how is that related to the collecting data by default thing. Is that a leftist thing now?

Whether you agree or disagree with what the Mozilla foundation does, it seems fairly matter of fact to say that they are pursuing liberal policies and that posts from the leadership, like the couple below, employ a good bit of leftist rhetoric. https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/first-steps-toward-lasti... https://blog.mozilla.org/en/mozilla/leadership/mozilla-racia...

Seems like standard centre-left to me: no issues with current ideas of capital or governance structures at all!

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#259

Post by sloowm »

_heimdall wrote: post #224
temporarely wrote: post #162

Enough of this waiting for virtuous entities to address legitimate concerns of the public. The "ad industry" is a cancer and we need legal protection against this "industry". The solution is political not technical and definitely can not be left to "the market". Haven't you had enough?

Anyone bothered enough by advertising can stop using whatever product has been ruined by ads, or find ways to remove the advertising. More laws and larger governments doesn't have to be the answer to all problems. If consumers care enough they'll change their usage, if they don't change their usage they likely don't care enough.

If I walk outside I'm bombarded by ads. Almost all websites have been tailored to include ads and hide information. You're tracked on all devices you touch.

Vaguely referencing more laws or larger government doesn't mean anything. We're not talking about all problems but a specific one. There is an obvious imbalance between the power and information an individual consumer can use to shield themselves from activities by companies that are detrimental to them. We are also not expected to test our own food for toxins.

More platitudes and soundbites doesn't have to be the answer to all problems.

Re: For advertising, Firefox now collects user data by default

#260

Post by bachmeier »

DaoVeles wrote: post #31

So where can I donate to Ladybird browser development? Before anyone tries to respond with it. It is https://donorbox.org/ladybird

How would that solve the problem? Years down the road, if they actually finish their browser, what guarantee do you have against it being enshittified in some way? The only option I see is a project that exists to deshittify an open source browser.
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