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Google's Gemini AI caught scanning Google Drive PDF files without permission

tomshardware.com

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Re: Google's Gemini AI caught scanning Google Drive PDF files without permission

#11

Post by Aurornis »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #2

Just reiterates that you don't own your data hosted on cloud providers; this time there's a clear sign, but I can guarantee that google's systems read and aggregated data inside your private docs ages ago. This concern was first raised when Gmail started, 20 years ago now; at the time people reeled at the idea of "google reads your emails to give you ads", but at the same time the 1 GB inbox and fresh UI was a compel…

> but I can guarantee that google's systems read and aggregated data inside your private docs ages ago

That is how search works, yes.

But if you’re trying to imply that everyone’s private data was scraped and loaded into their LLM, then no, that’s obviously a conspiracy theory.

It’s incredible to me that people think Google has convinced tens of thousands of engineers to quietly keep secret an epic conspiracy theory about abusing everyone’s private data.

Re: Google's Gemini AI caught scanning Google Drive PDF files without permission

#13

Post by zarathustreal »

Aurornis wrote: post #11
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #2

Just reiterates that you don't own your data hosted on cloud providers; this time there's a clear sign, but I can guarantee that google's systems read and aggregated data inside your private docs ages ago. This concern was first raised when Gmail started, 20 years ago now; at the time people reeled at the idea of "google reads your emails to give you ads", but at the same time the 1 GB inbox and fresh UI was a compel…

> but I can guarantee that google's systems read and aggregated data inside your private docs ages ago That is how search works, yes. But if you’re trying to imply that everyone’s private data was scraped and loaded into their LLM, then no, that’s obviously a conspiracy theory. It’s incredible to me that people think Google has convinced tens of thousands of engineers to quietly keep secret an epic conspiracy theory…

To riff on the famous Upton Sinclair quote:

“It is difficult to get an engineer to see something, when his salary depends on his not seeing it.”

Re: Google's Gemini AI caught scanning Google Drive PDF files without permission

#14

Post by psychoslave »

Aurornis wrote: post #11
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #2

Just reiterates that you don't own your data hosted on cloud providers; this time there's a clear sign, but I can guarantee that google's systems read and aggregated data inside your private docs ages ago. This concern was first raised when Gmail started, 20 years ago now; at the time people reeled at the idea of "google reads your emails to give you ads", but at the same time the 1 GB inbox and fresh UI was a compel…

> but I can guarantee that google's systems read and aggregated data inside your private docs ages ago That is how search works, yes. But if you’re trying to imply that everyone’s private data was scraped and loaded into their LLM, then no, that’s obviously a conspiracy theory. It’s incredible to me that people think Google has convinced tens of thousands of engineers to quietly keep secret an epic conspiracy theory…

> that’s obviously a conspiracy theory.

Well, while some of our fellow humans are far too quick to jump on concluding that everything and the rest comes from some conspiracy, it shouldn't void the existence of any conspiracy as an extreme opposite.

In that case, whether these actors do it or not is almost irrelevant: they have the means and incentives to do so. What safeguard civil society is putting in place to avoid it to happen is a far more interesting matter.

Re: Google's Gemini AI caught scanning Google Drive PDF files without permission

#15

Post by vouaobrasil »

All AI should be opt-in, which includes both training and scanning. You should have to check a box that says "I would like to use AI features", and the accompanying text should be crystal clear what that means.

This should be mandatory, enforced, and come with strict fines for companies that do not comply.

Re: Google's Gemini AI caught scanning Google Drive PDF files without permission

#17

Post by drzaiusx11 »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #15

All AI should be opt-in, which includes both training and scanning. You should have to check a box that says "I would like to use AI features", and the accompanying text should be crystal clear what that means. This should be mandatory, enforced, and come with strict fines for companies that do not comply.

We also need a robots.txt extension for publicly accessable file exclusion from AI training datasets. iirc there's a nascent ai.txt but not sure if anyone follows it (yet)

Re: Google's Gemini AI caught scanning Google Drive PDF files without permission

#18

Post by GaggiX »

vouaobrasil wrote: post #15

All AI should be opt-in, which includes both training and scanning. You should have to check a box that says "I would like to use AI features", and the accompanying text should be crystal clear what that means. This should be mandatory, enforced, and come with strict fines for companies that do not comply.

The feature was enable by the author.

Re: Google's Gemini AI caught scanning Google Drive PDF files without permission

#19

Post by fifteen1506 »

Aurornis wrote: post #11
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #2

Just reiterates that you don't own your data hosted on cloud providers; this time there's a clear sign, but I can guarantee that google's systems read and aggregated data inside your private docs ages ago. This concern was first raised when Gmail started, 20 years ago now; at the time people reeled at the idea of "google reads your emails to give you ads", but at the same time the 1 GB inbox and fresh UI was a compel…

> but I can guarantee that google's systems read and aggregated data inside your private docs ages ago That is how search works, yes. But if you’re trying to imply that everyone’s private data was scraped and loaded into their LLM, then no, that’s obviously a conspiracy theory. It’s incredible to me that people think Google has convinced tens of thousands of engineers to quietly keep secret an epic conspiracy theory…

> It’s incredible to me that people think Google has convinced tens of thousands of engineers to quietly keep secret an epic conspiracy theory about abusing everyone’s private data.

With NDA being all over the place, it does strike me as doable.

NDAs should have a time limit.

Additionally, no-one in their right mind will be a whistleblower nowadays.

Re: Google's Gemini AI caught scanning Google Drive PDF files without permission

#20

Post by dmvdoug »

Aurornis wrote: post #11
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #2

Just reiterates that you don't own your data hosted on cloud providers; this time there's a clear sign, but I can guarantee that google's systems read and aggregated data inside your private docs ages ago. This concern was first raised when Gmail started, 20 years ago now; at the time people reeled at the idea of "google reads your emails to give you ads", but at the same time the 1 GB inbox and fresh UI was a compel…

> but I can guarantee that google's systems read and aggregated data inside your private docs ages ago That is how search works, yes. But if you’re trying to imply that everyone’s private data was scraped and loaded into their LLM, then no, that’s obviously a conspiracy theory. It’s incredible to me that people think Google has convinced tens of thousands of engineers to quietly keep secret an epic conspiracy theory…

I dunno, bro, software engineers have repeatedly shown total lack of wider judgment in these contexts over the years. Not to say there is, in fact, some kind of “epic conspiracy,” just that SWEs appear not to take much time to consider just what it is their code ends up being used for. Incidentally, that would be one way to start to get out of the mess we’ve found ourselves in: start holding SWEs accountable for their work. You work on privacy-destroying projects that society pushes back against, it’s fair game to put you under the microscope. Perhaps not legally, but we as a society shouldn’t hold back from directed criticism and social accountability for the individual engineers who enable this kind of shit. That will not be a popular take here. Perhaps it will be some solace to know I advocated the same kind of accountability for lawyers who enabled torture and other governmental malfeasance in the GWoT years. I was also looked at askance by other lawyers for daring to suggest such a thing. In that way, SWEs remind me of lawyers in how they view their own work. “What, I’m not personally responsible for what my client chooses to use my services for.”

Yeah, you are, actually.

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