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Just Be Rich (2021)

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Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#261

Post by throwaway7ahgb »

feedforward wrote: post #105
WalterBright wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sweden, France, California, Washington state and NYC have discovered once again that taxing the heck out of rich people causes them to leave. And when they leave, they take their spend/invest/hire money with them.

The US had a tax rate of over 90% for the wealthy in the 1950s (although with loopholes they could push it lower, like now). Didn't seem to have much of an effect on the wealthy, and the US working class did very well.

The old top tax rates are constantly echo'd around and not relevant towards any conversation.

The only thing that matters is what the effective rate was. They could create a 100% tax bracket but if nobody paid it, it's just words in a book.

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#262

Post by throwaway7ahgb »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #161
kjksf wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe it's an argument for allowing states to try different economic strategies and compete for business based on outcomes of those strategies. If California taxes people and businesses at insane levels, maybe we shouldn't replicate insane level of taxation everywhere else in U.S., on the off chance that it is not, in fact, an optimal level for generating wealth for the people. Maybe Texas and Florida should be al…

I missed it, I don't see anywhere in this thread where people are being taxed on 'exit' from a state. Nothing is being confiscated. What is happening is that a state increases taxes on the current population, and the rich leave to a cheaper states so they don't have to pay the higher tax. So there is freedom of movement. But this does open a loop whole where they can use up resources, then split. To your argument. I…

The 'State' here is confounded. The State also refers to USA. If you give up citizenship and leave the US, they will tax you on exit. It's ridiculous.

I should be able to give up citizenship or move to another country and pay a cent to the US government.

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#263

Post by [deleted] »

PostOnce wrote: post #115
the_real_cher wrote: post #83

The part everyone always glosses over is: If the rich are taxed more, will the government equitably distribute that money to the middle class? Defense contractors make hundreds of millions of dollars from government funds. We just assumed that tax money will go to the middle class but it's also likely to go to another rich person.

Defense contractors employ a lot of (real, not javascript) engineers with good salaries and then those salaries get taxed again and then they pay for government meteorologists and then those salaries get taxed again and then they pay for construction Government spending is a fantastic deal because they automatically get a huge discount in the form of being able to tax what they give you. That's why privatization is t…

[deleted]

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#264

Post by throwaway7ahgb »

arrosenberg wrote: post #158
kjksf wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe it's an argument for allowing states to try different economic strategies and compete for business based on outcomes of those strategies. If California taxes people and businesses at insane levels, maybe we shouldn't replicate insane level of taxation everywhere else in U.S., on the off chance that it is not, in fact, an optimal level for generating wealth for the people. Maybe Texas and Florida should be al…

> If California taxes people and businesses at insane levels, maybe we shouldn't replicate insane level of taxation everywhere else in U.S., on the off chance that it is not, in fact, an optimal level for generating wealth for the people. This is nonsense. California is the strongest state in the union economically, with one of the highest quality of life and income per capita. We have an affordability crisis that is…

Another view:

1) California is so popular because it has beautiful weather and natural resources. A group of monkeys could govern the state into prosperity.

2) California has also had the highest number of power outages amongst all states.

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#265

Post by throwaway7ahgb »

Justsignedup wrote: post #211
TrackerFF wrote: post #56

I live in a country with wealth tax (Norway), and I'm a bit conflicted on it. On one side, it is effectively the only real tax a many in the "ownership class" are paying - relative to their wealth. On the other side, it is a really problematic tax for entrepreneurs. It is downright horrible for startups and scaleups - critical funds that should be used to grow your company, has to be given out in dividends to founder…

Yeah the problem is that europe is doing the right thing BUT the US says fuck it do what you want. So it forces europe to have to compete on the same bs market as the US.

Or the US is smarter and realizes it's a failing policy.

We can have a debate which country is more prosperous between the US and the entire EU.

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#266

Post by [deleted] »

PostOnce wrote: post #115
the_real_cher wrote: post #83

The part everyone always glosses over is: If the rich are taxed more, will the government equitably distribute that money to the middle class? Defense contractors make hundreds of millions of dollars from government funds. We just assumed that tax money will go to the middle class but it's also likely to go to another rich person.

Defense contractors employ a lot of (real, not javascript) engineers with good salaries and then those salaries get taxed again and then they pay for government meteorologists and then those salaries get taxed again and then they pay for construction Government spending is a fantastic deal because they automatically get a huge discount in the form of being able to tax what they give you. That's why privatization is t…

[deleted]

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#267

Post by throwaway7ahgb »

ryandrake wrote: post #160
Terr_ wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US had same problem with family farms. [...] it was heavily taxed [...] what is left is not enough for the kids to make a living Math or it didn't happen! I say that because I've seen this kind of claim many times, and usually either (A) the Federal Estate Tax has no real affect on what happens or (B) their definition of "family farm" is wildly grandiose. https://www.cbpp.org/blog/the-myth-that-the-estate-tax-t…

Exactly, in the US, the estate tax minimum is over $13M. Under that, and it's not subject to tax. If you inherit a $14M farm (!!) and have to pay a little estate tax on it, well, I'm not exactly weeping for your misfortune. I would be happy to take that farm off of you and figure out how to pay the tax, if you're so against taxes.

That is the current minimum, and that's because it was taught hard by one political party.

If not, these farms would be wiped out and very large corporations would own them all.

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#268

Post by throwaway7ahgb »

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #255
ryandrake wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, in the US, the estate tax minimum is over $13M. Under that, and it's not subject to tax. If you inherit a $14M farm (!!) and have to pay a little estate tax on it, well, I'm not exactly weeping for your misfortune. I would be happy to take that farm off of you and figure out how to pay the tax, if you're so against taxes.

I think the issue is that the land can be worth over $13M, but the income from farming it is low, so the people living on the land are poor. Then the taxes against the $13M are beyond what the family can pay, so they loose the land. Or the land gets whittled down as parts are sold off to pay the taxes on the rest. The land is worth way more than the income from farming it.

100%

I come from a family of farmers. The land is worth a lot but also has large notes on them. If you see the way these farmers live, NOBODY would call them rich. They never sell and the land gets passed from generation to generation.

All the income from farming goes back into the farm (notes, taxes, supplies, maintenance).

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#269

Post by the_real_cher »

PostOnce wrote: post #115
the_real_cher wrote: post #83

The part everyone always glosses over is: If the rich are taxed more, will the government equitably distribute that money to the middle class? Defense contractors make hundreds of millions of dollars from government funds. We just assumed that tax money will go to the middle class but it's also likely to go to another rich person.

Defense contractors employ a lot of (real, not javascript) engineers with good salaries and then those salaries get taxed again and then they pay for government meteorologists and then those salaries get taxed again and then they pay for construction Government spending is a fantastic deal because they automatically get a huge discount in the form of being able to tax what they give you. That's why privatization is t…

Im struggling to understand how what youre saying doesnt also apply to private industry and what hiring meteorologists has to do with this.

I havent found anyone I can call to come fix a road from the government in my town however I can get anything the private industry offers, delivered, often immediately.

Re: Just Be Rich (2021)

#270

Post by throwaway7ahgb »

rahimnathwani wrote: post #81
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US had same problem with family farms. The farm itself was very valuable, so when being left to the children as inheritance, it was heavily taxed. But, this is a problem, because what is left is not enough for the kids to make a living. So in the act of trying to tax the rich with inheritance, there are some lower/middle layers getting hit very hard. Taxes don't have to be a flat number, there should be exemption…

What is special about family farms, that doesn't apply to other family-owned businesses?

Because when the US was settled (not that long ago), 90%+ of people were farmers.

Now the East and West coast voters see no value in these farms so want the government to tax them away. They also naively think that the local farmers market can supply the country's food supply.

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