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Ask HN: Most accurate scientific book on human sleep?

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Re: Ask HN: Most accurate scientific book on human sleep?

#11
post #9

If I go to sleep before 11 pm, even if I'm sleepy, I'll have severe insomnia and won't be able to sleep until 3-5am the next day. But if I go to sleep at 12am, I'll automatically wake up at 6am perfectly rested. I say sleep science got it wrong at the minimum 8hr sleep to be healthy, just find your body's sleep schedule and follow it. As with water, only drink when thirsty and in rest, long before/after eating or exe…

I think the science says it varies. If you wake up without an alarm and you're perfectly rested then good on you! If I sleep less than 8 hours I feel like I lost 10 IQ points and I'm tired most of the day.

Re: Ask HN: Most accurate scientific book on human sleep?

#12
post #11
post #9

If I go to sleep before 11 pm, even if I'm sleepy, I'll have severe insomnia and won't be able to sleep until 3-5am the next day. But if I go to sleep at 12am, I'll automatically wake up at 6am perfectly rested. I say sleep science got it wrong at the minimum 8hr sleep to be healthy, just find your body's sleep schedule and follow it. As with water, only drink when thirsty and in rest, long before/after eating or exe…

I think the science says it varies. If you wake up without an alarm and you're perfectly rested then good on you! If I sleep less than 8 hours I feel like I lost 10 IQ points and I'm tired most of the day.

That's what I say, know yourself, find your schedule. But I haven't found sleep science talking about it.

Re: Ask HN: Most accurate scientific book on human sleep?

#13
Books like “Why We Sleep” and podcasts like Huberman Lab are kind of like a junk food version of science: They deliver some bits of information that can be helpful, but they’re so coated in stretched truth, overconfidence, and stories crafted more to sound good than to be accurate that it’s not really accurate science material.

In a case like yours (difficulty sleeping) that might actually be fine, to be honest. A lot of people find relief from simply feeling like they understand a subject, rather than from having absolute accuracy of information. The confidence begets a feeling of control, which diminishes anxiety, which indirectly leads to better sleep.

These podcasts and materials often follow a pattern of suggesting some specific protocol based on loose interpretations of some underpowered study. The actual power of these supplements on routines is almost always much lower than the host says (Huberman is one of the worst at this) but the confidence with which the protocol is prescribed is often enough to convince people that it will work. The protocols and supplements turn into rituals and routines, which are cues for sleep, indirectly establishing a healthier sleep cycle with cues for relaxation.

On the other hand, some people get more anxious after consuming this material because they feel like not sleeping well is killing them, which creates more anxiety, which then worsens sleep.

I’ll let you decide which category you’re in.

For actual material on the subject: Sleep science and research isn’t as much about practical lifestyle tips as you might expect. The material that would be more helpful, practically speaking, is to pursue therapy-like modalities and relaxation techniques. You will find much more material about practically improving sleep from the therapy angle than you will from reading deep science on sleep architecture.

Re: Ask HN: Most accurate scientific book on human sleep?

#15
post #12
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the science says it varies. If you wake up without an alarm and you're perfectly rested then good on you! If I sleep less than 8 hours I feel like I lost 10 IQ points and I'm tired most of the day.

That's what I say, know yourself, find your schedule. But I haven't found sleep science talking about it.

I think it’s pretty commonly recognized that different people have different sleep duration requirements (within reason). The 8 hour rule is a popular rule of thumb, but in no way does current sleep science say that’s a hard rule that is true for everyone.

Re: Ask HN: Most accurate scientific book on human sleep?

#16
I dug into this quite a bit for a while. A book that I found pretty good, albeit at times redundant, is "Say Goodnight To Insomnia". The author has studied sleep, specifically insomnia, for a good chunk of their life and uses CBT to conquer insomnia. The book also talks a bit about myths around sleep which I found interesting.

Re: Ask HN: Most accurate scientific book on human sleep?

#18
A disclaimer is that I haven't read "Why We Sleep". Nonetheless I recommend the book "Sync" by Steven Strogatz (2003) -- particularly chapter 3 on sleep -- which describes a neat coupling of when we sleep / when we wake up to our body temperature which oscillates with a period of roughly 24 hours. (See figures on pgs 81 and 83.) Much of this discussion on sleep is derived from "isolation" research in the mid 1970's by Elliot Weitzman and Charles Czeisler, experiments in which subjects were isolated from all sense of time including daylight, clocks, and the news, to study their sleep cycles in the absence of external information telling them the time of day.

Re: Ask HN: Most accurate scientific book on human sleep?

#19
post #12
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the science says it varies. If you wake up without an alarm and you're perfectly rested then good on you! If I sleep less than 8 hours I feel like I lost 10 IQ points and I'm tired most of the day.

That's what I say, know yourself, find your schedule. But I haven't found sleep science talking about it.

Science shows there’s underlying variability in sleep demands and these change based on age but people can also get used to less sleep even though they benefit from more.

In general newborns sleep 12-16 hours per day but not continuously. Age 6-12 average 9-12 hours. Teens average 8-10 hours. Between 25 and 64 most people are 7 to 9 hours which is where the 8 hours comes from. Seniors sleep less and rarely continuously through the night.

Talking about averages always excludes outliers. Some people are 6’6” and others 4’8, but odds are you’re still capable of sleeping more with better habits. There’s methods to learn how to fall asleep more easily and huge benefits from consistent sleep patterns. Further, it can make a huge difference what your room is like, lower temperatures and a lack of light is almost universally beneficial.

Re: Ask HN: Most accurate scientific book on human sleep?

#20
Science is good, but it probably won't tell you how to fix your sleep. Especially not a book which is highly generalized. Experiment, experiment, experiment. Nerd the hell out. That probably means reading papers, but it also means trying out stuff like breathing exercises, meditation, yoga nidra, etc. It might even mean transforming your entire life and worldview. Attempting to find the most accurate scientific book on a subject is laudable in some respects, but also a severely limited approach if that's all you're doing. I wish you well on your journey.
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