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Eric Raymond: Why I think RMS is a fanatic, and why that matters

esr.ibiblio.org

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Re: Eric Raymond: Why I think RMS is a fanatic, and why that matters

#41

Post by cheatercheater »

kamaal wrote: post #20

RMS is what he is because, what he is. You can't change such people, you won't be able to. And they won't change, And they must not change. If people like him, don't live like he does- Its impossible to take on entities like Microsoft and Apple single handedly. Although you can argue that ideas from Free software were there ahead and during RMS's times. You can never debate that he gave it a sense of cause, activism…

> But I see ESR as a epitome of hyperbole, bad mouthing, hating people because of their belief, faith and their way of life.

Then you haven't stumbled upon kuro5hin I take it?

Re: Eric Raymond: Why I think RMS is a fanatic, and why that matters

#42

Post by luser001 »

cheatercheater wrote: post #39
jgrahamc wrote: post #2

"The problem with it is the same problem with messianic religions in general; for people who are not flipped into true-believer mode by any given one, it will come off as at best creepy and insular, at worst nutty and potentially dangerous (and this remains true even for people attached to a different messianic religion)." I fit into neither of the caricatures of either a 'true believer' or someone scared of RMS. I s…

I agree with RMS on many points, but I think you're misguided: > I've always used the GPL for licensing my open source code ITYM "free software" > specifically because it ensures that it stays open and that improvements are given back. No, it does not. Any software not being redistributed does not have to publish its improvements. And even if it does publish the improvements, they don't have to be made accessible in…

Ubuntu doesn't contribute to upstream? What do you mean?

The limitations you point out on publishing changes are nits imho. It's far better than nothing, and social pressure has been successfully used in many cases to make sure proper SCM logs are sent.

Re: Eric Raymond: Why I think RMS is a fanatic, and why that matters

#43

Post by pjscott »

pvarangot wrote: post #33
zbuc wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ESR doesn't strike me as particularly fanatical from what I know of him. Are you thinking of something in particular?

Are you familiar with his views about Islam or Homosexuality? Those seem pretty fanatical to me, they are completely biased and downright offensive and illiterate. He equates homosexuality with paedophilia, denies HIV is the sole cause of AIDS and believes in a conspiracy to hide the true causes, and calls for the murder of religious leaders of the middle east equating them with animals. I tried multiple times to dis…

I dislike seeing someone's name smeared in a vague way. A bit of googling brought up the essay you mentioned regarding homosexuality, pederasty, and pedophilia:

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=26

(Vagueness, begone!)

Re: Eric Raymond: Why I think RMS is a fanatic, and why that matters

#44

Post by cheatercheater »

kamaal wrote: post #17
_delirium wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read much of his writing style, or any of his disputes with others? They seem to always end up in hyperbolic, very personal polemics, like this one. Look up his encounters over the years with Bruce Perens, or RMS several times, or anyone ESR considers a "left-liberal". Also, climate scientists are malevolent frauds, in his view, Barack Obama is the worst president and anyone who can't see that is intellectua…

The difference is RMS is a fanatic with tons of accomplishments in his bag. Blog Noise to work ratio is too high in ESR's case. I don't know what his contributions to software are. Or when was the last time I heard some major contribution from him. He always seems to find something to bad mouth. I would consider RMS a super achiever compared to ESR.

http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/show-them-the-code

and, for more of Eric's accomplishments:

http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/archive/moral-compassed

Re: Eric Raymond: Why I think RMS is a fanatic, and why that matters

#45

Post by jiggy2011 »

papsosouid wrote: post #21
kamaal wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference is RMS is a fanatic with tons of accomplishments in his bag. Blog Noise to work ratio is too high in ESR's case. I don't know what his contributions to software are. Or when was the last time I heard some major contribution from him. He always seems to find something to bad mouth. I would consider RMS a super achiever compared to ESR.

Right, RMS at least used to write code. ESR has always been a creepy hacker fanboy, latching on to and idolizing hacker culture, but has never been part of it, and never produced any code.

I'm curious, how does ESR make a living? He seems to spend a lot of time running his personal site (which carries no charges or ads) and has written a bunch of Open Source software. I don't see him doing anything that would put money into his bank account, or is he being sponsored by some company? If so who?

Re: Eric Raymond: Why I think RMS is a fanatic, and why that matters

#46

Post by trotsky »

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.

George Bernard Shaw - Maxims for Revolutionists - http://www.gutenberg.org/cache/epub/26107/pg26107.html

In my opinion Eric argues against his point simply by making it.

Re: Eric Raymond: Why I think RMS is a fanatic, and why that matters

#47

Post by [deleted] »

cstross wrote: post #38

We need people like RMS. He marks one side of the Overton Window framing the debate on freedom and software. (Overton window: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window ) This doesn't mean he's right but what he does is necessary . If he didn't exist we'd need to invent him (or someone like him). (Oh, and he is indeed a fanatic, but of the pacifist variety -- not the kind who's interested in killing people to enforc…

[deleted]

Re: Eric Raymond: Why I think RMS is a fanatic, and why that matters

#48

Post by jiggy2011 »

I have a hunch that RMS will be of great interest to historians, probably more so than Steve Jobs in the long run.

The overall GNU/Linux/OSS movement/project is the only thing I can think of where a work of such magnitude has been carried out on a global scale and has not been orchestrated by a single entity such as a government of corporation.

Something that has been tested on this scale and succeeded as well as it has is likely to be spread to other areas of life. Once Stallman dies , he will be remembered much more fondly than we think of him now and it would not surprise me if he became the inspiration for some future ruler or political movement.

Re: Eric Raymond: Why I think RMS is a fanatic, and why that matters

#49

Post by arthi »

cstross wrote: post #38

We need people like RMS. He marks one side of the Overton Window framing the debate on freedom and software. (Overton window: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Overton_window ) This doesn't mean he's right but what he does is necessary . If he didn't exist we'd need to invent him (or someone like him). (Oh, and he is indeed a fanatic, but of the pacifist variety -- not the kind who's interested in killing people to enforc…

No doubt you feel the same way about Rick Santorum.

Re: Eric Raymond: Why I think RMS is a fanatic, and why that matters

#50

Post by Tichy »

I find it often quite sad if people are called upon to change their behavior for public relations reasons. In many cases I feel people are asked to undermine their integrity.

I say screw public relations, stand up for what you believe is right! If free software needs a more agreeable head figure, why don't they hire Paris Hilton or whomever?

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