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Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

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Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#211

Post by AlbertCory »

jwkpiano1 wrote: post #148
ethagknight wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You lost me at “climate change induced typhoon”. Comparing an “Bay Area typhoon” (very hilly) to low and flat Houston with a direct hit is disingenuous at best.

The elevation of Houston is _higher_ than the elevation of SF. Yes, there are many hills, and the _max_ elevation is obviously higher, but there are also plenty of low lying areas and areas at sea level.

Nonetheless, there are no recorded instances of large storm-induced floods in the SFBay area that I'm aware of. Do you know of any?

Fires, earthquakes, heavy rains causing mudslides that have actually killed people: yes. Some very localized flooding around the Russian River happens all the time. The Guadalupe River in San Jose flooded a few years ago. But storm surge from the ocean? nope, nope.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#212

Post by xboxnolifes »

jncfhnb wrote: post #184
galdosdi wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another poster pointed out that the cost of moving lines underground is really only a one time fee of about $5 per person per month for about 10 years. This does not seem too expensive for a permanent increase in reliability. One thing I will miss about living in Manhattan is the power never ever went out, at least not due to the distribution grid. And, it's a minor, minor thing, but as a bonus, having lines out of s…

Per person per month for 10 years is a ridiculous unit to choose. Europe benefits from being very dense. The US grid is way more spread out. Undergrounding costs are around $1M per mile. The US has millions of miles of lines.

Look at the numbers and it's not so crazy. This is a last mile issue, not a full grid issue.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#213

Post by vondur »

_wire_ wrote: post #108
bdcravens wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing, but migrating to it is very expensive. Centerpoint, the physical electricity provider in Houston, has said it would cost $2.5M per square mile. Houston is 640 square miles. Regulations allow them to claw back costs on the bills. (For example, repairs from past storms are often paid for over the course of several years in the form of a bond that is applied to customers as surcharges) https://www.houstonchroni…

Funny to think about these costs and the health of the national commons from a point of view of the Federal budget. For example, you point out it would cost 2 billion to migrate Houston's above-ground to storm proof below ground. If we could lop off 1/4 of the DoD and intelligence budget of $1T/yr and dedicate it to infrastructure, we could pay for 125 Huston-scale improvement projects per year. And still have the mo…

Houston is having some budget issues currently: https://abc13.com/houston-budget-mayor-john-whitmire-city-se...>

How much should the states bail out mismanaged cities? How much should the Federal Government bail out mismanaged states? Budgets aren't "free money" as you assert.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#214

Post by vondur »

tzs wrote: post #75
RheingoldRiver wrote: post #9

I was there last weekend & for the day of the hurricane. This was just a cat 1 hurricane at the time it passed through Houston, and there was SO much damage. I can't imagine the city is remotely prepared for (god forbid, and idk how likely it is that far inland anyway) a cat 4 or 5. We were staying in a hotel that had a backup generator, but every single other building that was visible from our hotel had lost power d…

> I can't imagine the city is remotely prepared for (god forbid, and idk how likely it is that far inland anyway) a cat 4 or 5. In the past they've never had a cat 5. The last cat 5 was Carla in 1961. The last cat 3 was Alicia in 1983. The last cat 2 was Alicia in 2008 (although that was actually east of Houston and just hit Houston with its weaker winds). Climate change should make such storms more likely to form, b…

If I remember correctly, Houston is one of the most Air Conditioned cites on earth. In the older days, Houston was much smaller with less concrete and paving that holds the heat in, making the entire area warmer. Plus, older houses were designed for the climate that they were in. Now, every place in the US basically gets the same house design regardless of the climate.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#215

Post by alexk307 »

tzs wrote: post #75
RheingoldRiver wrote: post #9

I was there last weekend & for the day of the hurricane. This was just a cat 1 hurricane at the time it passed through Houston, and there was SO much damage. I can't imagine the city is remotely prepared for (god forbid, and idk how likely it is that far inland anyway) a cat 4 or 5. We were staying in a hotel that had a backup generator, but every single other building that was visible from our hotel had lost power d…

> I can't imagine the city is remotely prepared for (god forbid, and idk how likely it is that far inland anyway) a cat 4 or 5. In the past they've never had a cat 5. The last cat 5 was Carla in 1961. The last cat 3 was Alicia in 1983. The last cat 2 was Alicia in 2008 (although that was actually east of Houston and just hit Houston with its weaker winds). Climate change should make such storms more likely to form, b…

Why start at 1970 when Houston has a temperature record back to 1889? Start in the 60s and the jump is far lower. Or any other year and the difference changes.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#216

Post by bobthepanda »

vondur wrote: post #213
_wire_ wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny to think about these costs and the health of the national commons from a point of view of the Federal budget. For example, you point out it would cost 2 billion to migrate Houston's above-ground to storm proof below ground. If we could lop off 1/4 of the DoD and intelligence budget of $1T/yr and dedicate it to infrastructure, we could pay for 125 Huston-scale improvement projects per year. And still have the mo…

Houston is having some budget issues currently: https://abc13.com/houston-budget-mayor-john-whitmire-city-se... > How much should the states bail out mismanaged cities? How much should the Federal Government bail out mismanaged states? Budgets aren't "free money" as you assert.

The general problem states see is that metropolitan regions are more productive and produce more taxes, so in many cases the state cannot necessarily wash its hands of cities.

The largest municipal fiscal crises in the nation so far have been NYC in the ‘70s and Detroit. There is also the case of Puerto Rico, although one could argue the feds have more culpability there since its status as a non-state subject to federal laws makes a lot of avenues for resolving crises illegal.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#217

Post by DoneWithAllThat »

ethagknight wrote: post #124
hedora wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, and I speak from experience. We've been repeatedly hit by climate-change induced typhoons here (near the SF Bay Area), and hurricane-force gusts hit both of the last two years. Our area looses a lot of roads to mudslides, and of course we have extended power outages. Having said that, the first year, PG&E only delivered one nine of availability last year, and this year, they're closer to two nines. The di…

You lost me at “climate change induced typhoon”. Comparing an “Bay Area typhoon” (very hilly) to low and flat Houston with a direct hit is disingenuous at best.

I was laughing too. Yes the legendary typhoons slamming into SF yearly, how could I forget.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#218

Post by seanmcdirmid »

yread wrote: post #200
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New Orleans and Houston are basically built on swamps. In New Orleans, you can’t even bury people below ground, so I doubt you can do much with power lines underground.

In Amsterdam the ground water level is also very high but people manage to put lines in the ground

So this is weird, but I never saw people buried above ground in Amsterdam like in New Orleans. What the diff? Even if cremation is common now, it probably wasn’t a hundred or two years ago?

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#219

Post by dehrmann »

hedora wrote: post #71
blantonl wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't a "grid issue." It is a last-mile issue. It's specifically an issue with the sheer amount of above ground power lines and population density. There is no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this. Plus, what causes the same amount of power outages (wind damage) isn't going to be different between 90mph winds and 150 mph winds. The effects are going…

I disagree, and I speak from experience. We've been repeatedly hit by climate-change induced typhoons here (near the SF Bay Area), and hurricane-force gusts hit both of the last two years. Our area looses a lot of roads to mudslides, and of course we have extended power outages. Having said that, the first year, PG&E only delivered one nine of availability last year, and this year, they're closer to two nines. The di…

> climate-change induced typhoons here (near the SF Bay Area), and hurricane-force gusts

What the Bay Area has seen is nothing like actual hurricanes.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#220

Post by bequanna »

freen wrote: post #178
bequanna wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Houston city government is largely comprised on Democrats and has been for some time. Also, California has dealt with issues related to electric reliability and is by no means a conservative state.

Who gave Centerpoint the monopoly? Who holds center point accountable? Houston Mayor? Nope. State government. Republicans. That you for making an excellent point.

Who gave PG&E the monopoly in CA?
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