Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning • Hacker News Board

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#131

Post by EasyMark » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 5:22 PM UTC

gunapologist99 wrote: post #104

RheingoldRiver wrote: post #9

I was there last weekend & for the day of the hurricane. This was just a cat 1 hurricane at the time it passed through Houston, and there was SO much damage. I can't imagine the city is remotely prepared for (god forbid, and idk how likely it is that far inland anyway) a cat 4 or 5. We were staying in a hotel that had a backup generator, but every single other building that was visible from our hotel had lost power d…

Hurricane Ike was a category 4 that traveled nearly directly over Houston in 2008. (It wasn't a category four when it passed over, since, like all major storms, they weaken as they move inland.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Ike Burying lines, especially in historic areas, is incredibly expensive and not necessarily a panacea either, although it helps. Is it worth it? Realistically, for the millions upon mi…

I think part of the argument is that it’s like that the number of these events will double or trouble, or even become yearly with climate change.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#132

Post by throwup238 » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 5:23 PM UTC

genocidicbunny wrote: post #119

SoftTalker wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably right, but also you don't miss what you've never had. Not having air conditioning was just normal.

It might have been normal but people are people and would still seek out more comfortable climates. And if you stretch the definition of air conditioning a bit, we've had that for about as long as we've been living in semi enclosed spaces. Running a fire at night to keep the cave warm is air conditioning. Building your home to have water flowing under the floors so that you can cool or heat the floors passively (I be…

Before the 20th century people seeked out arable land that could feed them reliably, any comfort the climate provided was a very distant concern.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#133

Post by gunapologist99 » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 5:23 PM UTC

_wire_ wrote: post #108

bdcravens wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing, but migrating to it is very expensive. Centerpoint, the physical electricity provider in Houston, has said it would cost $2.5M per square mile. Houston is 640 square miles. Regulations allow them to claw back costs on the bills. (For example, repairs from past storms are often paid for over the course of several years in the form of a bond that is applied to customers as surcharges) https://www.houstonchroni…

Funny to think about these costs and the health of the national commons from a point of view of the Federal budget. For example, you point out it would cost 2 billion to migrate Houston's above-ground to storm proof below ground. If we could lop off 1/4 of the DoD and intelligence budget of $1T/yr and dedicate it to infrastructure, we could pay for 125 Huston-scale improvement projects per year. And still have the mo…

> Plus the Federal budget is essentially free money, constructed as needed

It's amusing and a bit scary that someone thinks the federal budget is essentially free money, constructed as needed.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#134

Post by dylan604 » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 5:25 PM UTC

poikroequ wrote: post #117

RheingoldRiver wrote: post #9

I was there last weekend & for the day of the hurricane. This was just a cat 1 hurricane at the time it passed through Houston, and there was SO much damage. I can't imagine the city is remotely prepared for (god forbid, and idk how likely it is that far inland anyway) a cat 4 or 5. We were staying in a hotel that had a backup generator, but every single other building that was visible from our hotel had lost power d…

It's likely a combination of multiple factors. Texas, being a red state, most certainly has a stronger climate denial sentiment, which is going to affect policies and regulations. Texas may be unprepared because major hurricanes were uncommon in the past. Global warming means hotter temperatures which makes long power outages more unbearable. And probably other reasons I can't think of. I expect things will improve,…

>Texas may be unprepared because major hurricanes were uncommon in the past.

Maybe, but no. Texas has its history of major hurricanes. While maybe not as popular of a target as Florida and New Orleans, but Houston definitely has as much of a bullseye on it as a trailer park in a tornado.

Harvey was predicted well in advance that it was going to be a devastating storm. For days ahead I saw the up to 40" of rain and thought that couldn't possibly be correct. Then it happened. Houston took little action and then acted shocked. Of course, Houston has it's own unique set of problems with their lack of zoning rules plus so many other things without having to make some climate denier argument that's not necessarily wrong but just horribly out of place

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#135

Post by bluerooibos » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 5:27 PM UTC

krapp wrote: post #115

spamizbad wrote: post #105

Why is Texas infrastructure so brittle? It’s a wealthy, prosperous state unencumbered by regulation or legacy stuff that tends to cause issues in other states.

You've answered your own question. The incentives of capitalism "unencumbered by regulation" and the necessities of investing in and maintaining infrastructure are often at odds.

See the crumbling privatised water infrastructure in London/England as another example of this. The companies in charge allowed the infrastructure to crumble all whilst paying out massive shareholder dividends and holding huge amounts of debt. Then they dare to ask for government bailouts and increased utility bill prices. Someone explain how that's even allowed.

As usual, socialism for the losses, capitalism for the profits.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#136

Post by KingOfCoders » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 5:27 PM UTC

dwighttk wrote: post #85

KingOfCoders wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin, 3.645M citizen, everything underground. Houston, 2.302M citizen, ... "gigantic"

When people are talking about Houston they are talking about Greater Houston: 7.5M people over 10,000 square miles https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greater_Houston

Greater Berlin also is much bigger than Berlin.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#137

Post by gunapologist99 » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 5:28 PM UTC

quickthrowman wrote: post #93

tigerBL00D wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think the difference between the power grid and the power utility is clear to most people. The grid is a statewide wholesale electricity distribution network which consists of generators, substations and high voltage long distance transmission lines. The utility is in charge of taking the power from the grid and delivering 110/220V to end customers, i.e. homes and businesses. This hurricane caused a lot of da…

> The utility is in charge of taking the power from the grid and delivering 110/220V to end customers, i.e. homes and businesses. Sorry to be pedantic, but most US businesses have 208/120V or 480/277V three-phase electrical services. There are some old existing 240/120V three-phase high-leg delta (aka bastard leg) delta services. [0] Delta-wye transformers are the most common type today, that’s where you get the 208/…

> Sorry to be pedantic

Why apologize. You're in the right place for pedantry ;)

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#138

Post by KingOfCoders » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 5:29 PM UTC

bdcravens wrote: post #70

KingOfCoders wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Berlin, 3.645M citizen, everything underground. Houston, 2.302M citizen, ... "gigantic"

It's not a matter of population, but land. Berlin is about 345 square miles; Houston is 640.

Berlin including suburbs ("Speckgürtel") is ~1400 square miles.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#139

Post by KingOfCoders » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 5:30 PM UTC

sojournerc wrote: post #107

KingOfCoders wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Visited NYC several times. Metro was unbearable in summer because trains heated up outside and blasted the warm air into tunnels and stations through AC.

AC doesn't really create heat though, aside from minor amounts from the compressor/fan motors, it merely moves it from inside to outside, or into the metro stations as you mention.

Yes, AC moves heat from inside homes outside into the city.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#140

Post by bluerooibos » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 5:31 PM UTC

namesbc wrote: post #23

[flagged]

They don't need to be regulated, they need to be forcefully taken into public ownership. Utilities shouldn't be privatised, and neither should public transport for that matter. All these companies do is siphon off profits to shareholders without re-investing and maintaining the infrastructure as they should.