Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning • Hacker News Board

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#41

Post by blantonl » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:35 PM UTC

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #21

blantonl wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't a "grid issue." It is a last-mile issue. It's specifically an issue with the sheer amount of above ground power lines and population density. There is no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this. Plus, what causes the same amount of power outages (wind damage) isn't going to be different between 90mph winds and 150 mph winds. The effects are going…

"no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this" Regulations on the initial construction? In other words, plan ahead. But no, I must have my 'Freeeeedooooommmmm'. You can't force me to prepare.

Yeah, well what about existing infrastructure? Most new construction already buries the last mile of power.

But if you do have above ground power lines feeding your house, how likely would it be that you'd be in favor of having your entire backyard dug up for a couple weeks while they implemented this huge public works project? How likely would you be willing to shoulder the cost burden? And of course, it's just as simple as digging a trench and burying the lines, right? I'm pretty sure there isn't any buried oil and gas infrastructure in the Houston area.... right?

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#42

Post by AlbertCory » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:36 PM UTC

RheingoldRiver wrote: post #9

I was there last weekend & for the day of the hurricane. This was just a cat 1 hurricane at the time it passed through Houston, and there was SO much damage. I can't imagine the city is remotely prepared for (god forbid, and idk how likely it is that far inland anyway) a cat 4 or 5. We were staying in a hotel that had a backup generator, but every single other building that was visible from our hotel had lost power d…

It's obvious that everyone wants to blame it on their favorite villain, whatever that is.

A more rational approach would be to look at comparable cities and see how they cope with big storms, whatever the storms' cat numbers. My guess is, no matter what comparables you pick, Houston comes out on the bottom.

Maybe it IS deregulation! You can be in favor of it in general, and still admit, "OK, maybe in this instance it didn't work." That doesn't mean you're giving free rein to the people in favor of the government regulating everything.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#43

Post by KingOfCoders » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:36 PM UTC

epolanski wrote: post #8

To me it's crazy people run so much AC at home. It's like making global warming a worse problem with AC, so it gets hotter and we use more AC. I live in Rome, Italy, we had 40C (104F) degree max temperatures during day, and even at night it doesn't fall below 29C (84) and we survive without AC just fine, not just me but the rest of my family in their houses too, of course it is sometimes uncomfortable, but that's sum…

Many homes in the US are not build with stone but thin wood. Houses in Europe with stone take some time to heat up. We lived in a 100 year old house in Berlin and it took 2 months until the walls were warm. Also took some months in winter until walls are cold again.

[Edit] This is not about insulation but heat capacity.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#44

Post by wongarsu » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:36 PM UTC

39896880 wrote: post #6

Mindless2112 wrote: post #4

TL;DR: > “The grid is a whole different issue which we’re addressing, have been addressing, and will continue to address,” Patrick said. “The power is down because the lines are down, and the transmission lines are down primarily because trees fell on them.”

Is the grid not composed of power lines?

What he means (but can't say directly) is that this isn't like the last couple highly public Texas blackouts. This time the power is available, there is enough generating capacity online and connected, they just can't get it delivered.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#45

Post by ta125865421 » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:36 PM UTC

39896880 wrote: post #5

gigatexal wrote: post #3

Not angry enough to get their elected officials to make the power grid changes needed to make it more robust to such things. I mean how can they when reps like Ted Cruz fly off to Cancun when the weather gets really bad.

Notice the deflection by the Lt Governor: “People have a right to be extremely frustrated with CenterPoint. People are suffering through terribly oppressive heat, a lack of food and gasoline availability, debris everywhere, and much more,” Patrick said. “The poor and most vulnerable are suffering the most.” Not, “People have a right to be frustrated with the government,”

What is going on over there? Seems like crazy town. With the geriatrics and corruption, good god it looks dystopian from a rando aussie pov.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#46

Post by KingOfCoders » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:37 PM UTC

sojournerc wrote: post #12

epolanski wrote: post #8

To me it's crazy people run so much AC at home. It's like making global warming a worse problem with AC, so it gets hotter and we use more AC. I live in Rome, Italy, we had 40C (104F) degree max temperatures during day, and even at night it doesn't fall below 29C (84) and we survive without AC just fine, not just me but the rest of my family in their houses too, of course it is sometimes uncomfortable, but that's sum…

AC isn't a problem if the energy feeding it is carbon neutral. With a strong mix of renewables and nuclear this is achievable, but instead we continue to burn coal and natural gas to provide base load.

Visited NYC several times. Metro was unbearable in summer because trains heated up outside and blasted the warm air into tunnels and stations through AC.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#47

Post by FredPret » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:38 PM UTC

gmueckl wrote: post #24

blantonl wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't a "grid issue." It is a last-mile issue. It's specifically an issue with the sheer amount of above ground power lines and population density. There is no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this. Plus, what causes the same amount of power outages (wind damage) isn't going to be different between 90mph winds and 150 mph winds. The effects are going…

What's wrong with below-ground power distribution for metropolitan areas?

I’m not an electrical or civil eng, but I imagine it’s very expensive to dig so many tunnels.

Groundwater (especially for coastal cities) and people drilling holes would be very problematic too.

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#48

Post by ndr42 » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:38 PM UTC

I‘m curious, Texas seems to get a lot of sun - how common are private solar installations on the roofs? Combined with a battery you could lower your electricity bill and would be safe from this kind of problem.

In my neighbourhood in northern germany about 5% of the houses have them. They pay for themself in about 5-10 years.

edit: spelling

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#49

Post by FredPret » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:38 PM UTC

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #21

blantonl wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This wasn't a "grid issue." It is a last-mile issue. It's specifically an issue with the sheer amount of above ground power lines and population density. There is no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this. Plus, what causes the same amount of power outages (wind damage) isn't going to be different between 90mph winds and 150 mph winds. The effects are going…

"no easy fix, preparation, or practically anything else that can be done to prevent something like this" Regulations on the initial construction? In other words, plan ahead. But no, I must have my 'Freeeeedooooommmmm'. You can't force me to prepare.

Why didn’t we think to regulate physics before!?

Re: Houston-area residents enter sixth day without power, air conditioning

#50

Post by blantonl » Sat, Jul 13, 2024, 4:38 PM UTC

harimau777 wrote: post #22

wannacboatmovie wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not angry enough to get their elected officials to make the power grid changes needed Do you have the magic solution that makes them resilient to natural disasters short of burying every single power line underground? Which is not only impractical but insanely expensive. The infrastructure has been physically damaged or destroyed. You fired off a politically charged comment and offered no specifics.

Increased trimming of trees near power lines. Apparently CenterPoint spent significantly less than some of the other power suppliers on maintenance. I don't know that it would help in this specific instance, but connecting Texas to the rest of the power grid would likely make the system overall more resilient.

It wouldn't have helped. Trimming trees is preventative maintenance so that simple wind gusts don't trip lines when branches encroach on power lines.

The only way you can prevent damage from falling trees is to completely remove them.