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Yelp accused of burying good customer reviews

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Re: Yelp accused of burying good customer reviews

#41
post #3

This is a pretty crummy article. If you read it carefully, you see: - a woman owns a shady company - she tries to get her friends to write five star reviews of her on Yelp - Yelp intentionally tries to filter out these reviews so the site isn't filled with spam opinions - the woman is upset The real question is why there's a news story taking her side in this.

Agreed. Not to say there isn't a problem with Yelp's practices (as have been documented elsewhere), but this article does not make a good case against them. From an algorithmic standpoint, filtering out reviews from new users makes sense. Otherwise you'll get the owner and friends stuffing in good reviews. Just look at what the data might look like for the 17 people. -They all sign up in a period of a few weeks. -The…

> (as have been documented elsewhere)

I don't think that really has been documented elsewhere. There have been lawsuits and allegations, but no proof, as far as I know, that Yelp has offered to compromise their reviews for cash. Yes, they give business owners willing to advertise some editorial control over their listing, but the extent of that control is fairly well-understood and not much more nefarious than Google's text ads. Correct me if there's documented evidence otherwise.

Instead, we get article after article of business owners complaining because their Yelp reviews suck and their obvious attempts to game them have been thwarted. But that's exactly what Yelp should be doing. They're useless if they can be gamed. They're also useless if it becomes well-known that they're pay-to-play, but again, I don't think there's actual evidence of that. They'd have to be pretty stupid to take that course.

Re: Yelp accused of burying good customer reviews

#42
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

It goes beyond that, though. I reviewed a local deli around a year ago. I had been using Yelp for a few months, and it was probably my tenth review. I hadn't been asked to provide a review. None of the reasons they cited in the article applied to me, yet my review was buried, and negative reviews from newer users were left unfiltered. I took my ball and went home. Yelp sucks.

Care to link to that review?

Re: Yelp accused of burying good customer reviews

#43

http://eater.com/archives/2011/07/20/yelp-accused-of-fivesta... http://www.eastbayexpress.com/ebx/yelp-and-the-business-of-e... http://consumerist.com/2010/02/yelp-accused-of-more-negative... http://jonathanturley.org/2010/02/27/yelp-accused-of-extorti... http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/04/yelp-lawsuit-extortion/ http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/17/complaints-against-yelps-ex... http://www.pcworld.com/article/190231/yelp_…

Do any of those links actually document bad behavior or just allege bad behavior?

Re: Yelp accused of burying good customer reviews

#44
post #3

This is a pretty crummy article. If you read it carefully, you see: - a woman owns a shady company - she tries to get her friends to write five star reviews of her on Yelp - Yelp intentionally tries to filter out these reviews so the site isn't filled with spam opinions - the woman is upset The real question is why there's a news story taking her side in this.

I didn't pick up on her business being "shady" -- what exactly indicates that?

Re: Yelp accused of burying good customer reviews

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It goes beyond that, though. I reviewed a local deli around a year ago. I had been using Yelp for a few months, and it was probably my tenth review. I hadn't been asked to provide a review. None of the reasons they cited in the article applied to me, yet my review was buried, and negative reviews from newer users were left unfiltered. I took my ball and went home. Yelp sucks.

Care to link to that review?

I totally took my ball home -- cancelled my account and everything.

Re: Yelp accused of burying good customer reviews

#46
post #3

This is a pretty crummy article. If you read it carefully, you see: - a woman owns a shady company - she tries to get her friends to write five star reviews of her on Yelp - Yelp intentionally tries to filter out these reviews so the site isn't filled with spam opinions - the woman is upset The real question is why there's a news story taking her side in this.

I think it was a useful, informative article. Why do you say she runs a shady company? Electrolysis, as far as I know, is a legitimate hair removal technique. I understand Yelp filtering out what they may see as astroturfing reviews, but on the other hand I can certainly understand a business owner getting customers to submit positive reviews to counter negative effects of Yelp. Finally, is paying $350 a month to Yelp now considered a normal cost of running a bricks and mortar business these days? Unbelievable.

Re: Yelp accused of burying good customer reviews

#47
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

It goes beyond that, though. I reviewed a local deli around a year ago. I had been using Yelp for a few months, and it was probably my tenth review. I hadn't been asked to provide a review. None of the reasons they cited in the article applied to me, yet my review was buried, and negative reviews from newer users were left unfiltered. I took my ball and went home. Yelp sucks.

“If you are a user and you are writing reviews and it’s getting filtered out — keep writing reviews,” a Yelp customer service person told Desloges

That's a stupid prescription. Any sensible user will do exactly what you did.

Your review is free content for their service. If they don't appreciate it screw them.

My sense of Yelp is that they are in a pickle for revenue. They are public, so the pressure is great.

Re: Yelp accused of burying good customer reviews

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Out of curiosity, what is the alternative? Just allow twenty five-star or one-star reviews to show up and say hey, if business owners want to scam the system by putting in fake reviews, then great? Or just open-source their algorithms? I guess to me it seems infinitely easier to criticize the way someone else does it than to present a more efficient way of doing it.

One possibility would be to allow users to manually flag reviews, instead of trying to do it algorithmically. They could also have some sort of confidence rating for reviews, or possibly a reputation system for reviewers. From looking at the hidden reviews for a couple of stores while I've been trying to find a place to get new glasses, they seem to be hiding a good number of legitimate reviews with their current sys…

Unfortunately, this takes the current problem(where legitimate reviews are removed), and replaces it with the exact same problem, where legitimate reviews are flagged to oblivion.

Instead of having the owner's friends post reviews, they post reviews and then flag every poor review, attempting to get them taken off. Or idiots with an axe to grind flag all the good reviews.

Re: Yelp accused of burying good customer reviews

#49
post #30
post #3

This is a pretty crummy article. If you read it carefully, you see: - a woman owns a shady company - she tries to get her friends to write five star reviews of her on Yelp - Yelp intentionally tries to filter out these reviews so the site isn't filled with spam opinions - the woman is upset The real question is why there's a news story taking her side in this.

> The real question is why there's a news story taking her side in this. You also have to wonder why HN upvoted it so that it appears in the top 5 threads. The news story is probably just looking for a sensationalist headline that will get them hits. What's our excuse? :)

Linkbait titles combined with the lack of ability to downvote stories. Even though I think restricting the downvote is a good idea, it contributes to this problem quite a bit.

And don't even get me started on the lack of ability to vote or comment on YC companies job posting spam (the reason for which I also understand)... I've spoken with a handful of these companies that end up listing multiple times, and even they have expressed interest in votes/comments simply to get feedback as to why their listings don't seem to work.

Re: Yelp accused of burying good customer reviews

#50
I've been running a business review website for about 4/5 years and I absolutely hate it.

If I had $1 for every time a business owner writes a review for themselves (signing up for an account with their business email address no less), our system removes it and then they email me within minutes complaining that a genuine customer had written them a review, where has it gone...

There are lots of variables our algorithms track to try and make a decision on whether to filter a review or not and of course it will get things wrong but if there wasn't any filtering in place, the amount of spammy reviews would be overwhelming.

I feel somewhat for Yelp, even with all their millions of dollars to throw at the problem as there is no easy solution, ignoring any potential pay for stars type nonsense. That is something I would never do and am very proactive when it comes to protecting small businesses.

Like I said though, after years of seeing people try to pull a fast one, the warmth in my heart fades.

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