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Ask HN: How to grow a concert visuals business?

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Ask HN: How to grow a concert visuals business?

#1

Post by nuclearsugar »

I'm tired of working full-time at companies that waste my talent and energy. I want to work for myself.

As a side hustle for the last few years, I've been designing custom concert visuals and releasing them on a monthly schedule. I've released 48 VJ packs so far and created a following within the niche community of VJs. These VJ performers then remix my visuals into their live performances at concerts. My setup is unique in that you can download every VJ pack by becoming a member on Patreon.

I want to take it to the next level and make it into a full-time business but I'm struggling to figure out next steps. It would be helpful to get an outsider's perspective since there are so few people doing this line of work and I feel a bit lost.

As far as I can see, there are two routes to go down:

1) Create custom visuals for touring musicians. Should I find a rep or agency to represent me for landing big projects? Should I start reaching out directly to the business managers of musicians? Should I start a company with a partner?

2) Continue making VJ packs for thousands of VJs internationally. Should I move to an annual membership fee instead of a monthly membership fee on Patreon? Should I move to an online shop format instead of a Patreon membership?

Biz folk, what am I missing? What am I not considering? Thanks!

https://www.jasonfletcher.info/vjloops/ --- https://www.patreon.com/isoscelesVJ

Re: Ask HN: How to grow a concert visuals business?

#2

Post by chabes »

Great work. I checked out your concert visuals 2024 reel. There is definitely work out there for folks that are familiar with techniques such as datamosh and generative visuals. People are familiar with them, since they have seen them used before, but most folks don’t know how to wield them.

I’m not a business person, but have been involved in visuals for almost 20 years. I have done paid gigs that were one off things, but never anything long term.

I’m kind of a DIY/ad-hoc kind of person, so If I were to focus on such things full time, I would reach out directly to artists that I want to work with. Many of them already have folks in their network that handle concert visuals and music videos, but there’s often room for diversity. If you can make something they like, that’s all you need.

As an example, look at artists like Animal Collective/Avey Tare/Panda Bear… David Portner(Avey Tare)’s sister does a lot of their concert visuals and music videos. They also frequently work with visual artist Danny Perez. Still, they find ways to integrate other artists while maintaining their overall style.

The music video for Panda Bear’s Crosswords involved a small team, including a director and a VFX person that were neither Portner or Perez. The video (from 2015, coming up on a decade old next year) uses early generative models like DeepDream, which was out of the realm of most other visual artists at the time.

Hell, if you can find a younger group or artist that hasn’t established those kinds of relationships yet, you could be the in-house visuals person for a good chunk of their career.

DJs also could use visual accompaniment. Plus, sharing pay with a single DJ is often more lucrative than sharing with an entire band.

Another idea is visuals for events/festivals. I work in the legal cannabis industry, and psychedelic visuals are welcome most places.

Anyway, best of luck in your endeavors

Re: Ask HN: How to grow a concert visuals business?

#3

Post by brudgers »

[Generic/random advice from the internet]

1) Create custom visuals for touring musicians. Should I find a rep or agency to represent me for landing big projects? Should I start reaching out directly to the business managers of musicians? Should I start a company with a partner?

To me, the big idea is right. The approach vector is wrong. Talk to musicians directly. They are the one's calling the shots. Talking to their gatekeepers means dealing with someone whose jam is gatekeeping. Gatekeepers are risk adverse because they want to keep their position as a gatekeeper.

No primary is going to reject your product because you bypassed their gatekeepers. They might redirect you to one of their people if they are interested instead of hanging with you. Or they might reject you outright.

The next step is hard work and lots of rejection. The reality is that most people in any business have existing relationships for goods and services...e.g. people who use VJ services in their business already have working relationships with people providing VJ services.

Going further, touring musicians tend to have a team they tour with..."there's a VJ in the tour van" so to speak. That person has experience with the problems of touring.

2) Continue making VJ packs for thousands of VJs internationally. Should I move to an annual membership fee instead of a monthly membership fee on Patreon? Should I move to an online shop format instead of a Patreon membership?

My advice is to become more personal. More custom. What actual problems can you solve for for specific VJ's and how much will they pay? Basically, consulting/freelancing/contract work for people with money to spend on bespoke products.

Doing either or both of those things will raise your experience when making new commodity products if you go that route. And three revenue streams is better than one. Be flexible, try lots of things and see what there is a market for. Good luck.

Re: Ask HN: How to grow a concert visuals business?

#6

Post by conductr »

This is super niche is my feeling, not going to be super easy. Musicians are a niche, those that use these visuals is a niche within, those that will like your particular style is a niche within.

That said, I'd guess that business managers are a waste of time. Musician's themselves are typically accessible on social these days. Make them custom art for their music and share with them. Probably only a small clip is needed, something to get their attention and hopefully reach out to you for custom work. This is where you can charge bigger prices.

The patreon approach is a great start but unless you really can build a huge following it's going to be hard to make it add up to to a greater sum. Prove me wrong though!!

Re: Ask HN: How to grow a concert visuals business?

#7

Post by saaaaaam »

brudgers wrote: post #3

[Generic/random advice from the internet] 1) Create custom visuals for touring musicians. Should I find a rep or agency to represent me for landing big projects? Should I start reaching out directly to the business managers of musicians? Should I start a company with a partner? To me, the big idea is right. The approach vector is wrong. Talk to musicians directly. They are the one's calling the shots. Talking to thei…

Problem with talking to musicians directly is that they might quite like or even quite love the idea, but they often prefer to hand off decisions about stuff that they are not super passionate about to the people who look after the money. Many musicians actively avoid wanting to have to deal with the commercial and logistical side of the shows and stuff around their music and delegate that side of stuff to managers and labels, so that it doesn’t distract them from their core mission which is creating.

So to get those musicians on board you need to make them passionately care, creative to creative.

So as you rightly point of the best way is to approach the creatives who design shows for lots of musicians and get them to care to be able to sell it in to the musicians and their teams.

Re: Ask HN: How to grow a concert visuals business?

#9

Post by Animats »

> Biz folk, what am I missing? What am I not considering? Thanks!

That, when the light show operators of the 1960s tried to organize to get paid like musicians, Bill Graham Presents crushed them.[1]

Live Nation / Ticketmaster is the descendant of Bill Graham Presents.

[1] https://www.pooterland.com/rabbit_hole_1969_lightshow_strike...

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