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US and Germany foiled Russian plot to assassinate CEO of arms manufacturer

cnn.com

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Re: US and Germany foiled Russian plot to assassinate CEO of arms manufacturer

#31

Post by dralley »

aiauthoritydev wrote: post #22

At the core of the Russia-Ukraine war there is something that we should all be somewhat concerned about. It is clear that USA remains an economic, cultural, moral and even spiritual powerhouse as other civilizations go through all sort of turbulence. By virtue of this, other "western" value nations like EU nations, Japan, Australia, South Korea etc. are doing well and likely to do well and benefit. Together we beat c…

This is total nonsense. Putin does not care about AI, by all accounts he doesn't even use technology much personally, he cares about being remembered as a Peter the Great figure who restored Russia to their rightful place as a superpower. It's just bog-standard nationalism of a kind we've seen dozens of times before.

Re: US and Germany foiled Russian plot to assassinate CEO of arms manufacturer

#32

Post by worstspotgain »

aiauthoritydev wrote: post #22

At the core of the Russia-Ukraine war there is something that we should all be somewhat concerned about. It is clear that USA remains an economic, cultural, moral and even spiritual powerhouse as other civilizations go through all sort of turbulence. By virtue of this, other "western" value nations like EU nations, Japan, Australia, South Korea etc. are doing well and likely to do well and benefit. Together we beat c…

I generally agree with your analysis. You describe the tall order for the Russians or Chinese to take on the Western-led world order and economic might and prevail. I would like to add:

- The Russians and Chinese are not natural allies (historically quite the contrary.)

- The only belligerence the Chinese have shown is on Taiwan and the South China Sea. On a pound-for-pound basis, they've been throwing their weight around a lot less than, say, older Western powers like France and the UK.

- By contrast, the Russians are on a world-domination war path, acting like Ivan the Terrible is still alive and the middle ages never ended.

The only way the Russians can hope to win is by locking the Chinese into their camp. This in turn requires the Chinese to completely turn their economy inward. There's just not enough BRICS to buy their current exports. It also means a massive drop of GDP.

The key here is that the Russians cannot lock in the Chinese without our help. So every time you hear someone bashing China in the West, keep in mind that driving a wedge between the West and China only really helps Russia.

I'm no fan of the CCP, but we've been allies with way worse governments, such as Saudi Arabia.

Re: US and Germany foiled Russian plot to assassinate CEO of arms manufacturer

#33

Post by worstspotgain »

aiauthoritydev wrote: post #25
tim333 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are things Germany could do. Taurus missiles to Ukraine would be one.

But that would provoke Russia and would lead to WW3. (Tongue in Cheek). My reading is that German elites are deeply compromised and probably on take from Russians. Either through money or through blackmail or through sheer fear. When taking a stand against Russia vs caving into Russian demands, I think Germany will fold and cave in to Russian demands.

Merkel was famously soft on Putin. She was definitely an apologist and perhaps a pocket ally. [1] While she was in power the AfD (the Russians' populist proxy party) was curiously held at bay at the polls. She's tied for second longest-serving chancellor after Bismarck.

The new chancellor Scholz is much less Russian-friendly. Perhaps unsurprisingly, his favorability numbers are in the gutter and the AfD is surging.

[1] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/05/germany-angela...

Re: US and Germany foiled Russian plot to assassinate CEO of arms manufacturer

#34

Post by slavaukro123777 »

dralley wrote: post #31
aiauthoritydev wrote: post #22

At the core of the Russia-Ukraine war there is something that we should all be somewhat concerned about. It is clear that USA remains an economic, cultural, moral and even spiritual powerhouse as other civilizations go through all sort of turbulence. By virtue of this, other "western" value nations like EU nations, Japan, Australia, South Korea etc. are doing well and likely to do well and benefit. Together we beat c…

This is total nonsense. Putin does not care about AI, by all accounts he doesn't even use technology much personally, he cares about being remembered as a Peter the Great figure who restored Russia to their rightful place as a superpower. It's just bog-standard nationalism of a kind we've seen dozens of times before.

[flagged]

Re: US and Germany foiled Russian plot to assassinate CEO of arms manufacturer

#35

Post by chipdart »

reducesuffering wrote: post #26
chipdart wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They did not. There was all sorts of speculation and enough circumstantial evidence to implicate either Russia or (...) depending on what your threshold is. There was circunstancial evidence implicating Russia, and there is Russia's firehose of falsehood spewing industrial levels of propaganda accusing everyone else ranging from Mickey Mouse to moon nazis. In the meantime, Russian ships were found to have been invo…

I'm very supportive of Ukraine's position in defending themselves and aware of the Kremlin's repeated bullshit claims. However, if I had to bet, I don't think Nordstream 2 was Russia. Sweden and Denmark just concluded their investigations after almost 2 years and if Russia had done it there would've been some implicating evidence. Instead, the reports ended with no conclusion other than it was "complex." I don't beli…

> However, if I had to bet, I don't think Nordstream 2 was Russia. Sweden and Denmark just concluded their investigations after almost 2 years and if Russia had done it there would've been some implicating evidence.

You should read the reports. Sweden was quite clear on how their investigation was closed because they determined that nothing indicated Sweden or Swedish citizens were involved in the attack, and that Sweden's jurisdiction did not applied anyway.

https://www.aklagare.se/en/media/press-releases/2024/februar...

Denmark closed their investigation stating that even though they determined it was an act of sabotage, "there are not sufficient grounds to pursue a criminal case in Denmark".

https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/denmark-ends-investigat...

> but there's a good chance it was US or Ukraine

No, there is only russian propaganda. They started to try to pin the blame on the US and UK, clearly to try to drive a wedge in NATO between continental allies and them, and only afterwards did they came with a bullshit theory involving Ukrainians on a yacht, this time to try to cool down support of Ukraine by EU members in a time when Ukraine needed them the most.

In the meantime, we are expected to believe that a theory pieced together involving a couple of Ukrainians in a yacht is plausible while multiple Russian ships loitering over the exact place where the explosions took place we're nothing substantial, particularly when said terrorist somehow kept intact Russia's only working gas pipeline feeding into Europe.

Re: US and Germany foiled Russian plot to assassinate CEO of arms manufacturer

#36

Post by reducesuffering »

chipdart wrote: post #35
reducesuffering wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very supportive of Ukraine's position in defending themselves and aware of the Kremlin's repeated bullshit claims. However, if I had to bet, I don't think Nordstream 2 was Russia. Sweden and Denmark just concluded their investigations after almost 2 years and if Russia had done it there would've been some implicating evidence. Instead, the reports ended with no conclusion other than it was "complex." I don't beli…

> However, if I had to bet, I don't think Nordstream 2 was Russia. Sweden and Denmark just concluded their investigations after almost 2 years and if Russia had done it there would've been some implicating evidence. You should read the reports. Sweden was quite clear on how their investigation was closed because they determined that nothing indicated Sweden or Swedish citizens were involved in the attack, and that Sw…

It’s not only Russian propaganda. US Intel sources too.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us-had-intelligence-ukrainian-...

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/03/07/us/politics/nord-stream-p...

I can’t possibly conclude one way or the other, but I don’t think you should either, as much as this whole war is Russia’s ultimate fault anyway

Re: US and Germany foiled Russian plot to assassinate CEO of arms manufacturer

#37

Post by t0bia_s »

aiauthoritydev wrote: post #22

At the core of the Russia-Ukraine war there is something that we should all be somewhat concerned about. It is clear that USA remains an economic, cultural, moral and even spiritual powerhouse as other civilizations go through all sort of turbulence. By virtue of this, other "western" value nations like EU nations, Japan, Australia, South Korea etc. are doing well and likely to do well and benefit. Together we beat c…

- Together we beat covid, invented magic pills for obesity, moved towards cheaper and better energy sources and kept our institutions strong.

Covid is beaten by our immune system. Since covid we have also rising overall mortality and total distrust in science, media and governments.

Obesity in wealthy countries, while millions starving in developing countries, treated by magic pills?

Energy prices are much more expensive than ever, many times more then in states with totalitarian regimes.

Institutions monetise everything they possibly could.

- People around the world continue to line up to immigrate to west legally or illegally. It is a huge success for us.

Have you been in UK, France on Germany recently?

-I see Russia, China, India and Arab world feel depressed about this that there is nothing they can do about this. They will not be able to catch up with us ever. They take pride in being "thousand year old civilization" but they are being outfoxxed by bunch of cowboys and LGBTQ folks at every step

Depression in youth in wealthy countries rise since social media consumption started. We have highest suicide attempts than ever.

Also, EU fertility rate per woman is 1.4, in US 1.6. You don't need to be skilled in math to know that wealthy west is dying.

I'm not sure, if your post is serious or not.

Re: US and Germany foiled Russian plot to assassinate CEO of arms manufacturer

#39

Post by jfengel »

worstspotgain wrote: post #32
aiauthoritydev wrote: post #22

At the core of the Russia-Ukraine war there is something that we should all be somewhat concerned about. It is clear that USA remains an economic, cultural, moral and even spiritual powerhouse as other civilizations go through all sort of turbulence. By virtue of this, other "western" value nations like EU nations, Japan, Australia, South Korea etc. are doing well and likely to do well and benefit. Together we beat c…

I generally agree with your analysis. You describe the tall order for the Russians or Chinese to take on the Western-led world order and economic might and prevail. I would like to add: - The Russians and Chinese are not natural allies (historically quite the contrary.) - The only belligerence the Chinese have shown is on Taiwan and the South China Sea. On a pound-for-pound basis, they've been throwing their weight a…

The only way the Russians can hope to win is by locking the Chinese into their camp. This in turn requires the Chinese to completely turn their economy inward.

I'm not following this point. They don't need the Chinese to completely align with Russia. They just need the Chinese to provide enough of a way around sanctions that they can continue the war.

The Chinese seem content to engage in the usual economic jockeying with the US, while antagonizing the US in a variety of ways (supporting Russia, menacing Taiwan, trolling, hacking, etc.) The wedge is there, and I don't an alliance with China is happening any time soon. Certainly not in time to help Ukraine.

We can position ourselves better for a less-awful world order if Ukraine can survive long enough that Russians get fed up with Putinism. I can't see the US and China as allies, but I can see us as less acrimonious rivals.

Unless the US decides to go all in with its isolationism, which seems entirely possible. In which case all bets are off.

Re: US and Germany foiled Russian plot to assassinate CEO of arms manufacturer

#40

Post by aiauthoritydev »

t0bia_s wrote: post #37
aiauthoritydev wrote: post #22

At the core of the Russia-Ukraine war there is something that we should all be somewhat concerned about. It is clear that USA remains an economic, cultural, moral and even spiritual powerhouse as other civilizations go through all sort of turbulence. By virtue of this, other "western" value nations like EU nations, Japan, Australia, South Korea etc. are doing well and likely to do well and benefit. Together we beat c…

- Together we beat covid, invented magic pills for obesity, moved towards cheaper and better energy sources and kept our institutions strong. Covid is beaten by our immune system. Since covid we have also rising overall mortality and total distrust in science, media and governments. Obesity in wealthy countries, while millions starving in developing countries, treated by magic pills? Energy prices are much more expen…

West throughout last 200 years or so has been better than rest of the world and yet deeply unhappy about it self. So my claim is not that it is Utopia but it is vastly better than rest of the world and continues to get better with the gap widening.

At this point, other than China, non western countries have nothing meaningful to offer to the world other than natural resources and basic labor. Even the best parts of the other parts such as Yoga, Vedanta of India is better in west in the land where it originated.

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