Why Gen Z doesn't want kids - we are living out a fantasy of eternal youth • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Gen Z doesn't want kids - we are living out a fantasy of eternal youth

#21

Post by talldayo » Fri, Jul 12, 2024, 2:23 AM UTC

wecky wrote: post #17

talldayo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did. The article blames literally everything but socioeconomics, and then instead of blaming the economy they say it's a social problem that must be legislated to get fixed. It is the same dog-and-pony opinion column they've paraded out for the past 2 years. It's why I'm shocked anyone would even submit this, except to make people angry. There's a reason Unherd articles always get flagged; they very often violate t…

> The article blames literally everything but socioeconomics You may have skipped past this paragraph: "Yet radical pro-natalism is only going to grow as motherhood, an ancient political battleground, is electrified by the ever more frightening socioeconomic outlook. Perhaps the only way to make this inevitable tide of pressure and debate work for us is first to recognise it as a collective issue, then to push for a…

That's not blaming socioeconomics. They're acknowledging it, writing it off and then saying that it's a political problem and not a market-related one. It's buried at the end of a litany of blame write-offs demanding change without identifying the problem.

When you make your next alt account, please don't waste our time with another one of these godforsaken opinion pieces. They are low-quality and so obviously outrage bait, you will have your post flagged before it reaches the frontpage and your account(s) will be banned if you exclusively promote low-quality, single-source material. I guarantee you this is not worth your time.

Re: Why Gen Z doesn't want kids - we are living out a fantasy of eternal youth

#22

Post by talldayo » Fri, Jul 12, 2024, 2:27 AM UTC

trealira wrote: post #18

talldayo wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did. The article blames literally everything but socioeconomics, and then instead of blaming the economy they say it's a social problem that must be legislated to get fixed. It is the same dog-and-pony opinion column they've paraded out for the past 2 years. It's why I'm shocked anyone would even submit this, except to make people angry. There's a reason Unherd articles always get flagged; they very often violate t…

> they say it's a social problem that must be legislated to get fixed Where did they say this?

> Perhaps the only way to make this inevitable tide of pressure and debate work for us is first to recognise it as a collective issue

Instead of identifying this as a market deficiency, they promote the idea that actually it's a collectivist cause. This isn't true, and it's an attempt to frame pronatalism as a "good versus evil" fight instead of a "cost optimization versus human interests" one. Again, Unherd will blame literally every single possible culprit except the concept of a free market betraying human interests. They deserve what they get, at this point.

Re: Why Gen Z doesn't want kids - we are living out a fantasy of eternal youth

#23

Post by trealira » Fri, Jul 12, 2024, 3:07 AM UTC

talldayo wrote: post #22

trealira wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they say it's a social problem that must be legislated to get fixed Where did they say this?

> Perhaps the only way to make this inevitable tide of pressure and debate work for us is first to recognise it as a collective issue Instead of identifying this as a market deficiency, they promote the idea that actually it's a collectivist cause. This isn't true, and it's an attempt to frame pronatalism as a "good versus evil" fight instead of a "cost optimization versus human interests" one. Again, Unherd will bla…

You seem unreasonably angry at this article for not immediately denouncing capitalism, and ignoring any possibility that there's a cultural aspect. The free market is not a new concept; why wasn't the birth rate as much of a problem 70 years ago when the market was just as free then? It's because young people today don't want kids as much as the previous generations did.

That said, I don't like having these kinds of articles on HN either.

Re: Why Gen Z doesn't want kids - we are living out a fantasy of eternal youth

#24

Post by taylodl » Fri, Jul 12, 2024, 12:53 PM UTC

missedthecue wrote: post #16

taylodl wrote: post #4

> Perhaps the only way to make this inevitable tide of pressure and debate work for us is first to recognise it as a collective issue, then to push for a system which does not actively punish women for having children: affordable childcare so that we do not face a career cliff edge; affordable housing so that settling down seems even remotely possible. There it is - Gen Z simply can't afford to have children. Student…

Everyone says money is the reason other people won't have kids. When I ask them what % raise they'd need before they have one themselves, I tend to get either ridiculous numbers ($500k a year!!!) or non-monetary reasons why they won't/can't have them. More money makes life more easy, but I get the sense that money has little to do with birth rates. After all, the poorest people in your city, state, country, and plane…

> After all, the poorest people in your city, state, country, and planet are the ones having the most children.

That's because the poorest people are also the ones having the most sex, because sex is a cheap form of entertainment. Poor people are also the least able to afford birth control. More sex plus less birth control equals more children. No one, however, would argue that these children have the brightest future with the most opportunities ahead of them.

Re: Why Gen Z doesn't want kids - we are living out a fantasy of eternal youth

#25

Post by shrimp_emoji » Fri, Jul 12, 2024, 1:04 PM UTC

taylodl wrote: post #24

missedthecue wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everyone says money is the reason other people won't have kids. When I ask them what % raise they'd need before they have one themselves, I tend to get either ridiculous numbers ($500k a year!!!) or non-monetary reasons why they won't/can't have them. More money makes life more easy, but I get the sense that money has little to do with birth rates. After all, the poorest people in your city, state, country, and plane…

> After all, the poorest people in your city, state, country, and planet are the ones having the most children. That's because the poorest people are also the ones having the most sex, because sex is a cheap form of entertainment. Poor people are also the least able to afford birth control. More sex plus less birth control equals more children. No one, however, would argue that these children have the brightest futur…

Right. Richer people have better stuff to do than have kids. Poor people are too uneducated and out of it to control how many kids they have.

It's kind of like wondering why people don't want to fall into puddles. And you notice that poor people who walk to work in the rain are the ones falling into puddles the most.

It's not about money. No one in history has ever had kids because they suddenly felt financially secure enough to. No one wants kids. Across the globe, when the standard of living rises, fertility goes down. Reproduction is a biological Ponzi scheme. When you're given an out, you take it.

Re: Why Gen Z doesn't want kids - we are living out a fantasy of eternal youth

#26

Post by shrimp_emoji » Fri, Jul 12, 2024, 1:06 PM UTC

talldayo wrote: post #8

wecky wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry but what relevance is this to the article?

It's my eternal retort to Unherd's conservative-bloc opinion pieces that wind up on this site. They will blame everything except the economy; parents, kids, pavlovian response, inherited habits, queer sensibility, conservative grit, drug addicts, city planners, farmers, communists, futurists, luddites, terrorism, journalism, therapists, athletes, aliens, politicians, rebels, reformists, radicals and apparently, apath…

Thank god for capitalism then. ;D

Re: Why Gen Z doesn't want kids - we are living out a fantasy of eternal youth

#27

Post by eadmund » Fri, Jul 12, 2024, 2:51 PM UTC

taylodl wrote: post #4

> Perhaps the only way to make this inevitable tide of pressure and debate work for us is first to recognise it as a collective issue, then to push for a system which does not actively punish women for having children: affordable childcare so that we do not face a career cliff edge; affordable housing so that settling down seems even remotely possible. There it is - Gen Z simply can't afford to have children. Student…

> Student loans make it quite difficult to pay for daycare and childcare - especially for infants. Add in the pressure for launching and establishing careers and the whole "baby thing" is being pushed off until the ladies are in their 30s. By that time, they may also be too entrenched in their bachelorette lifestyle to actually get married and have kids.

There are so many assumptions baked into that: that infants and children should be in daycare; that every citizen should go to college (and borrow to pay for it!); that every citizen should have a career; that the single lifestyle is more appealing than marriage and parenthood. But are those necessarily true?