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Rulers of the Ancient World: period correct measuring tools

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Re: Rulers of the Ancient World: period correct measuring tools

#41

Post by saalweachter »

jzxy wrote: post #23
legitster wrote: post #13

These are beautiful - but the project kind of misrepresents how ancient measurements worked. Outside of building sites in Medieval Europe it would be common for the head architect to have the outline of his hand on a sign. The idea being that even "crude" measurements like hand-widths and thumb lengths would be universally agreed upon for the project. You can see some of this at work watching documentaries of the Gué…

>It wasn't until empires and mass manufacturing that the need for "standardized" measurements. You have the cause and effect backwards. Mass manufacturing didn't create a need for standardized measurements. Standardized measurements allowed the existence of mass manufacturing. Mass manufacturing wasn't even close to a possibility before that. Measurements weren't created for a need that didn't even exist yet. You can…

It's a shame that we entered the era of precision a century or so before we got some good science.

We could have chosen so many different, cooler distance units than "one ten-millionth the distance between the North Pole and the equator, on a line passing through Paris". We could have chosen 1 nano-lightsecond! We could have chosen the wavelength of the hydrogen line! We had options, but we didn't even know them in 1800.

Avogadro's number is about 3% off from 24!. Instead of defining our mole as the number of carbon-12 atoms equal in weight to 12 cubes of water each one-billionth the distance between the North Pole and the equator, on a line passing through Paris, on a side, we could have defined it as 4!!! Imagine telling that to aliens when explaining our standard units, they'd be so jealous they'd convert on the spot.

Re: Rulers of the Ancient World: period correct measuring tools

#42

Post by kragen »

082349872349872 wrote: post #10
BitwiseFool wrote: post #4

While I am no apologist for the measurement system we use here in the United States, I realized something interesting when trying to explain why almost all of our units consist of easily divisible sub-units. Imagine you needed to split something up into halves, thirds, fourths, sixths, etc.. If you imagine doing this with paper, it's fairly easy. Now imagine Metric, and the need to split something into 10 even pieces…

The nice thing about geometry (as opposed to arithmetic) is that it's easy to guess something a little larger[0] than 1/10, repeat a series of ten of those units, and then line its end points up at an angle to your work and, letting similar triangles do their thing, transfer[1] from there... [0] eg, 1/8 would work, if you insist on subdivisions [1] assuming space-time is effectively euclidean at the scale you're doin…

this presupposes a way to construct parallel lines to transfer your tenths back to the segment you wanted to subdivide; this can certainly be done to three significant figures of precision with a compass and straightedge (or string and sand table), but it's still extra effort and extra opportunities for error compared to simple perpendicular bisectors

in some cases, it's not extra effort because you're doing a task that requires the construction of those parallel lines anyway, of course. laying out tiles on a floor or ripping a plank into smaller planks, for example. and if your desired parallel lines are perpendicular to the edge of your stela, the square that figures so prominently in the freemasons' logotype allows you to scribe them easily

(then again, once you're going to the effort of making a square, you might as well rule it)

Re: Rulers of the Ancient World: period correct measuring tools

#43

Post by legitster »

saalweachter wrote: post #41
jzxy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It wasn't until empires and mass manufacturing that the need for "standardized" measurements. You have the cause and effect backwards. Mass manufacturing didn't create a need for standardized measurements. Standardized measurements allowed the existence of mass manufacturing. Mass manufacturing wasn't even close to a possibility before that. Measurements weren't created for a need that didn't even exist yet. You can…

It's a shame that we entered the era of precision a century or so before we got some good science. We could have chosen so many different, cooler distance units than "one ten-millionth the distance between the North Pole and the equator, on a line passing through Paris". We could have chosen 1 nano-lightsecond! We could have chosen the wavelength of the hydrogen line! We had options, but we didn't even know them in 1…

More importantly, we missed a real opportunity to switch to a base-12 number system.

Re: Rulers of the Ancient World: period correct measuring tools

#44

Post by UncleSlacky »

throw0101c wrote: post #34
legitster wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another fascinating tidbit I learned from the curator at an air museum - the transition from wooden airplanes to metal airplanes was not a material constraint! In many ways, wood continued to be a superior building material for airplanes even by the advent of WWII. The transition from wood to metal was driven primarily as a manufacturing improvement. Wood changed and warped as you built the airplane, and it required…

> In many ways, wood continued to be a superior building material for airplanes even by the advent of WWII. A mostly-wood WW2 airplane: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito

Also notably stealthy as a result of its wooden construction:

From https://militaryhistorynow.com/2014/11/28/flying-under-the-r...

"British aircraft designers got out to an early lead with the De Havilland DH. 98 Mosquito. Introduced in 1941, the twin-engine, fighter/bomber’s airframe was constructed of radar absorbing plywood. While not specifically designed to be stealthy from the outset, the plane’s low signature as well as its top speed of nearly 600 km/h (375 mph) made it a tough target to track for Axis radar operators."

Re: Rulers of the Ancient World: period correct measuring tools

#45

Post by jzxy »

fhars wrote: post #37
jzxy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It wasn't until empires and mass manufacturing that the need for "standardized" measurements. You have the cause and effect backwards. Mass manufacturing didn't create a need for standardized measurements. Standardized measurements allowed the existence of mass manufacturing. Mass manufacturing wasn't even close to a possibility before that. Measurements weren't created for a need that didn't even exist yet. You can…

That is also why now country became industrialized before they gave up their ancient foot/inch/ounce measurement systems and became fully metric. Or something like this.

"metric vs imperial" has very little to do with the idea of "standardizing measurements". A foot is just as well defined of a unit as a meter and is not the historical, ancient meaning of "just use your foot". In fact, the Imperial units system was standardized and enshrined in British law before the metric system got adopted in France.

Re: Rulers of the Ancient World: period correct measuring tools

#46

Post by darby_nine »

legitster wrote: post #22
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In fact in the US it wasn't until Herbert Hoover, in his capacity as Secretary of Commerce in the 1920's, standardized everything from pipe gauges and thread counts to bedpans and light sockets. He published a government schedule which soon got adopted nationwide. It enabled a farmer in Wyoming to order parts from a manufacturer in Massachusetts and they would fit when they arrived.

Although, it should be noted that the standardization of measurements themselves was mostly done by the founding of the country. Authority of the government to "fix the Standard of Weights and Measures" is in the constitution. From its founding, the US had one of the largest contiguously agreed upon measurement system in the world, sidestepping the problems of European measurement systems which changed border to bord…

[flagged]

Re: Rulers of the Ancient World: period correct measuring tools

#48

Post by BitwiseFool »

legitster wrote: post #43
saalweachter wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shame that we entered the era of precision a century or so before we got some good science. We could have chosen so many different, cooler distance units than "one ten-millionth the distance between the North Pole and the equator, on a line passing through Paris". We could have chosen 1 nano-lightsecond! We could have chosen the wavelength of the hydrogen line! We had options, but we didn't even know them in 1…

More importantly, we missed a real opportunity to switch to a base-12 number system.

Now we have to wait for the French to have another revolution.

Re: Rulers of the Ancient World: period correct measuring tools

#49

Post by dredmorbius »

UncleSlacky wrote: post #44
throw0101c wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In many ways, wood continued to be a superior building material for airplanes even by the advent of WWII. A mostly-wood WW2 airplane: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Mosquito

Also notably stealthy as a result of its wooden construction: From https://militaryhistorynow.com/2014/11/28/flying-under-the-r... "British aircraft designers got out to an early lead with the De Havilland DH. 98 Mosquito. Introduced in 1941, the twin-engine, fighter/bomber’s airframe was constructed of radar absorbing plywood. While not specifically designed to be stealthy from the outset, the plane’s low signature…

I didn't realise the Axis powers had radar. Apparently they did, though Axis technology greatly lagged the Allied powers':

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Luftwaffe_and_Kriegsmar...>

Axis powers lead in other areas, notably in drones (V-1), rocketry (V-2), tank design, air-to-surface missiles, and audio technology (recording, public-address, playback, broadcast),

Re: Rulers of the Ancient World: period correct measuring tools

#50

Post by dredmorbius »

BitwiseFool wrote: post #48
legitster wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More importantly, we missed a real opportunity to switch to a base-12 number system.

Now we have to wait for the French to have another revolution.

Liberté, égalité, duodecimilité!
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