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Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

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Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#101

Post by Rinzler89 »

ben_w wrote: post #64
Rinzler89 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Like this argument you’re proposing just boils down to “it doesn’t solve my needs and therefore I can’t imagine it solving other people’s needs” I never said that. I asked what needs does the M4 solve that the M3/2 couldn't? I asked that because people keep bring up the M4 in discussion, arguing against X86/Qualcomm chips, how they're slower than Apple's latest M4 chips, and for that I counteract with the fact that…

> I never said that. I asked what needs does the M4 solve that the M3/2 couldn't? I asked that because people keep bring up the M4 in discussion, arguing against X86/Qualcomm chips, how they're slower than Apple's latest M4 chips, and for that I counteract with the fact that for a lot of cases the M4's extra performance over x86/Qualcomm is irelevant since X86/Qualcomm chips solve different and a lot more diverse pro…

>M4 is faster.

Faster at what exactly? Where can I buy these M4 chips to upgrade my PC with to make it faster as you claim? Oh, it's only shipped as part of a very locked down tablet OS and restricted ecosystem with totally different apps than those running on the X86/generic ARM chips which can run anything you write for them? OK, fine, but then what's the point of it being faster than those other chip if they can't run the same sw?

Like I said, you're comparing a Ferrari to a van. It's faster yes, but totally different use cases. And the world runs mostly on people driving vans/trucks, not on people driving Ferraris.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#102

Post by forrestthewoods »

Wytwwww wrote: post #92
forrestthewoods wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don’t understand where this idea that Apple has lost most of their chip design talent and is in trouble rhetoric is coming from. Why are you saying this? The article doesn't seem to imply that? Apple isn't in any kind of trouble. But the gap between Apple and the competition does appear to be closing. Right now Apple's biggest advantage is they buy up all of TSMC supply for the latest node. They're always a littl…

> I hope AMD and Nvidia start to release ARM SoC designs for laptops/desktops next year Or AMD / Intel could just make more power efficient x86 core? What would they gain by switching to ARM? Also developing a competitive ARM core in less than a year is pretty much impossible, it took Qualcomm several years to catch up with ARMs cores (hence the title...). They even had to buy another company to accomplish that.

> Or AMD / Intel could just make more power efficient x86 core? What would they gain by switching to ARM?

I mixed some thoughts in rewrites. I hope Nvidia releases laptop/desktop SoC. AMD is getting better at x86 mobile, Steamdeck is pretty decent. I hope they keep getting better.

I'd like to see high-end integrated GPU on a SoC from AMD for laptops/desktops. That doesn't exist yet. It requires a discrete GPU and there's a kajillion issues that stem from having two GPU paths. Just give me one SoC with shared memory and a competitive GPU. I don't care if it's ARM or x86.

> Also developing a competitive ARM core in less than a year is pretty much impossible

What makes you think they'd just be starting? Nvidia has been shipping ARM cores for years. Nintendo Switch is an Nvidia Tegra.

Here's an article from October 2023 claiming that Nvidia is working on CPUs for Windows to ship in 2025. Qualcomm has an "ARM for Windows" exclusive that expires at some point in 2024. https://www.reuters.com/technology/nvidia-make-arm-based-pc-...

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#103

Post by [deleted] »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #13
retskrad wrote: post #4

The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet without cooling. I don’t understand where this idea that Apple has lost most of their chip design talent and is in trouble rhetoric is coming from. Apple still makes the world’s most advanced and efficient consumer chips, years after the M1.

>The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet That's kind of the problem. The world's most powerful CPU is put in the world's most expensive and thinnest Netflix machine lol. Was the previous "thicker" M3 iPad holding anyone back? All that power and I can't use it to compile the Linux kernel, I can't use it to play the latest Steam/GOG games, or run CAD simulations, becaus…

[deleted]

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#104

Post by kernal »

bhouston wrote: post #95
kernal wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Android phones are going to get a major speed boost. They have been so uncompetitive against Apple for a while now. Uncompetitive? These numbers indicate otherwise while being on a previous generation TSMC 4nm node. Just imagine if they were on the same 3nm node as the A17. https://nanoreview.net/en/soc-list/rating https://www.androidauthority.com/snapdragon-8-gen-3-vs-apple...

Looking at this chart Apple just destroys the competition: https://browser.geekbench.com/mobile-benchmarks Also Apple's mobile devices destroy the competition in this chart as well if you sort by thread: https://www.cpubenchmark.net/CPU_mega_page.html

According to Geekerwan (who is one of the best mobile SoC reviewers) Apple does not destroy the competition. In fact, aside from the A17 single core score (which comes at the cost of increased thermals and aggressive throttling) Apple is the one destroyed in multi-core and GPU performance. All the while being on an inferior TSMC node.

>Snapdragon 8 Gen 3 comparison with A17. Apple's multicore lead is gone, GPU lead is gone, and the single core lead hasn't been smaller in a decade and has worse thermals.

https://www.reddit.com/r/apple/comments/17gvtew/geekerwan_sn...

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#106

Post by ben_w »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #101
ben_w wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I never said that. I asked what needs does the M4 solve that the M3/2 couldn't? I asked that because people keep bring up the M4 in discussion, arguing against X86/Qualcomm chips, how they're slower than Apple's latest M4 chips, and for that I counteract with the fact that for a lot of cases the M4's extra performance over x86/Qualcomm is irelevant since X86/Qualcomm chips solve different and a lot more diverse pro…

>M4 is faster. Faster at what exactly? Where can I buy these M4 chips to upgrade my PC with to make it faster as you claim? Oh, it's only shipped as part of a very locked down tablet OS and restricted ecosystem with totally different apps than those running on the X86/generic ARM chips which can run anything you write for them? OK, fine, but then what's the point of it being faster than those other chip if they can't…

Your complaint is more like saying a people carrier is an overpriced sportscar because of its inability to function as a backhoe, while ignoring evidence not only from all the people who use people people carriers, but also disregarding the usage and real world value evidence in the form of the particular company behind this people carrier manages to be wildly popular despite above average prices for every single model.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#107

Post by datameta »

Rinzler89 wrote: post #87
dagmx wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you allowed to have an opinion that trivializes how others work, but when other people do, then its astro-turfing?

How are "programs evil" and "apps good"? Without any convincing arguments to back up such claims, they do read like astro-turfing and just regurgitating Tim Cook's keynote speeches. This board is called Hacker News last time I checked, no?

I believe the point that was being made is that the perception, on average, is that iOS apps are carefully manicured and will not require troubleshooting by the typical user, as opposed to windows programs. There have been enough instances where this is true that for a certain slice of the population it is globally true. There is a different expectation of debugging from a consumer not versed in technology from those of us who work with/on it every day.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#108

Post by Rinzler89 »

0x457 wrote: post #90
ben_w wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No year will ever be "the year of Linux on the desktop", despite that phrase being so old that if I'd conceived a child when I first heard it, I'd be a grandparent already. The fact that you can't imagine a device being useful until it can compile the Linux kernel etc., that you dismiss it as a "Netflix machine", says more about you than about Apple.

> the year of Linux on the desktop It already happened: Windows + WSL2. Windows is the best linux distro.

Eh, yes and no. Windows kernel plus it's backend features for security, emulation and virtualization, which enable things like WSL2 and backwards compatibility to work are great, but they're hampered by a crap front end with news, ads, web search in start menu, and dark patterns everywhere being forced down your throat like OneDrive holding your files ransom in the cloud if you don't pay attention or the failed push for the CallBack feature with unencrypted screenshots, or Windows Explorer being slow as shit due to it now running JavaScript code for some reason.

All in all, I'm moving away from it to linux, as I don't like the direction Microsoft is taking, and learning to fix the rough edges of Linux will serve me better in my career than trying to keep up with and fight the dark pattern frog that Microsoft keeps boiling slowly.

Mutahar on YouTube did a review of a leaked copy of Windows 11 Chinese Government edition which is Windows 11 Enterprise with everything non essential stripped out of it: no AI, no telemetry, no OneDrive, no ads, no news, no Edge, no media player, no web search in star menu, no defender, nothing, just the kernel, drivers, window manager and explorer, that's it, kind of like lightweight linux distros. If Microsoft would sell that to us consumers I would buy that in a heartbeat. But no, we get the adware and spyware version.

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#109

Post by zitterbewegung »

thebeardisred wrote: post #71
dagmx wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a very narrow definition of “useful” and one I’d say is rather focused on yourself? Why is Linux the arbiter of what is “useful”? Why would it still be a benchmark flex if it was on macOS, an Os where millions of people do professional work everyday? And why is the iPad just a “Netflix machine” when tons of people use the iPad for professional creative use cases as well?

I'll attempt the best interpretation of the comment. Installing Linux would allow for general purpose use of the device (in a freedom sense). This increases the "utility" of the device and lowers the bar for extending its functionality.

You can run iSH on the device for Linux (somewhat limited). It’s on the App Store

https://github.com/ish-app/ish

Re: Qualcomm's Oryon core: A long time in the making

#110

Post by burningChrome »

dagmx wrote: post #26
Rinzler89 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>The M4 is the highest single core CPU in the world and it’s in a ridiculously thin tablet That's kind of the problem. The world's most powerful CPU is put in the world's most expensive and thinnest Netflix machine lol. Was the previous "thicker" M3 iPad holding anyone back? All that power and I can't use it to compile the Linux kernel, I can't use it to play the latest Steam/GOG games, or run CAD simulations, becaus…

That’s a very narrow definition of “useful” and one I’d say is rather focused on yourself? Why is Linux the arbiter of what is “useful”? Why would it still be a benchmark flex if it was on macOS, an Os where millions of people do professional work everyday? And why is the iPad just a “Netflix machine” when tons of people use the iPad for professional creative use cases as well?

Why is Apple the arbiter of what is “useful”? Why would it still be a benchmark flex if it was on Linux, an Os where millions of people do professional work everyday?

Your argument cuts both ways.

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