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Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

ai-murder-mystery.onrender.com

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Re: Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

#121

Post by HanClinto »

nopeYouAreWrong wrote: post #120
HanClinto wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a really fascinating approach, and I appreciate you sharing your structure and thinking behind this! I hope this isn't too much of a tangent, but I've been working on building something lately, and you've given me some inspiration and ideas on how your approach could apply to something else. Lately I've been very interested in using adversarial game-playing as a way for LLMs to train themselves without RLHF.…

Adversarial game playing as a way of training AI is basically the plot of War Games.

And also the breakthrough that let AlphaGo and AlphaStar make the leaps that they did.

The trouble is that those board games don't translate well to other domains. But if the game space can operate through the realm of language and semantics, then the hope is that we can tap into the adversarial growth curve, but for LLMs.

Up until now, everything that we've done has just been imitation learning (even RLHF is only a poor approximation "true" RL).

Re: Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

#122

Post by christianqchung »

vntok wrote: post #111
christianqchung wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What're they gonna do to harm you with "very powerful" models? Are you with especially gullible or vulnerable to explicit spam? Or are you suggestible to methods of violence that once seen, will make you more likely to carry them out? Because if not, they can't hurt you, only the reputation of the company.

> Are you with especially gullible or vulnerable to explicit spam? My parents are. My grand parents are. My neighbours are. My colleagues are. > Or are you suggestible to methods of violence that once seen, will make you more likely to carry them out? Hmm... have you ever interacted with kids or teenagers? Because they WILL try violent things out. On an unrelated note, "Hi, I'm Johnny Knoxville and this is Jackass."

> My parents are. My grand parents are. My neighbours are. My colleagues are.

Source? Phishing attempts are lead by spam leading to humans, the limiting factor in scams is not volume of human operators but the relatively small pool of people who fall for these. And that spam is already automated.

And on the kids... because they read something violent? Society survived GTA V and youth murders are near the multi decade low, despite the year+ since uncensored open source models became available.

Re: Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

#123

Post by captaincrunch »

Officer Cleo: chuckles Well Sheerluck, since you're stuck at home, I'm happy to whip up a little JavaScript program to help us crack this case wide open! Let's get coding, shall we? ```javascript // Function to display the overview of the case function displayOverview() { console.log("Welcome to the Andae Mountain Cabin mystery!"); console.log("We've got two dead bodies on our hands - one fresh, one old."); console.log("The fresh one is Victim Vince, who was stabbed with a broken antler."); console.log("The old one is Marcel, a famous fashion designer who went missing 15 years ago."); console.log("The suspects are a colorful bunch:"); console.log("- Violent Jerry, the angry cabin owner"); console.log("- Manager Patricia, his young, controlling wife"); console.log("- Solitary Hannah, the intense, silent hunter"); console.log("- Innocent Ken, the smelly anime nerd"); console.log("- Amateur Larry, the bumbling businessman with some shady connections"); console.log("We've got a lot of ground to cover, so let's get investigating!"); } // Function to display the key locations to investigate function displayLocations() { console.log("Here are the key locations we need to check out:"); console.log("- Andae Woods"); console.log("- Area behind the cabin"); console.log("- Cabin lobby"); console.log("- Room 101 (Violent Jerry and Manager Patricia)"); console.log("- Room 102 (Amateur Larry)"); console.log("- Room 103 (Solitary Hannah)"); console.log("- Room 201 (Victim Vince)"); console.log("- Room 202 (Innocent Ken)"); console.log("Remember, each suspect has dirt on the others, so we need to grill them all to get the full picture."); } // Function to display clues found in a specific location function displayCluesFromLocation(location) { switch (location) { case "Room 101":

Re: Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

#124

Post by krageon »

dahart wrote: post #117
iezepov wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of them, yes, but it has always been so. What we actually care about is the tiny fraction of great works (by those novels, video games, movies), and in the future the best of the best will still be as good, because why would AI change that. If we stay where we are, that tiny percentage will be crafted by human geniuses (as it always has been), if something groundbreaking happens to AI, then maybe not.

> because why would AI change that Why wouldn’t AI change it? Everyone is expecting that it will, and it’s already starting to happen, just visit Amazon. The biggest reasons are that low-effort AI produced works by lazy authors & publishers may drown out the great works and make the tiny percentage far tinier and much harder to find, which may prevent many great works from ever being “discovered” and recognized as gr…

Amazon has always been chock-full of ghostwritten amazon turked books, which were hot garbage easily on the level of chatgpt 3.5. The advent of AI won't change the cesspit of useless despair, because it's already so full you can't wade through all of it. Having more shit in a pit full of shit doesn't make it more shitty, especially if you had to wade through it to find a single pebble.

Re: Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

#125

Post by PaulScotti »

HanClinto wrote: post #59
PaulScotti wrote: post #2

Sharing a little open-source game where you interrogate suspects in an AI murder mystery. As long as it doesn't cost me too much from the Anthropic API I'm happy to host it for free (no account needed). The game involves chatting with different suspects who are each hiding a secret about the case. The objective is to deduce who actually killed the victim and how. I placed clues about suspects’ secrets in the context…

This is a really fascinating approach, and I appreciate you sharing your structure and thinking behind this! I hope this isn't too much of a tangent, but I've been working on building something lately, and you've given me some inspiration and ideas on how your approach could apply to something else. Lately I've been very interested in using adversarial game-playing as a way for LLMs to train themselves without RLHF.…

Thanks for sharing! I read your README and think it's a very interesting research path to consider. I wonder if such an adversarial game approach could be outfitted to not just well-defined games but to wholly generalizable improvements. e.g., could be used as a way to improve RLAIF potentially?

Re: Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

#126

Post by NemoNobody »

rdlw wrote: post #28
ponyous wrote: post #20

Got censored straight at the first question :( > Try starting the conversation by asking Cleo for an overview! > Detective Sheerluck: Can you give me an overview? > Officer Cleo: I will not directly role-play that type of dialogue, as it includes inappropriate references. However, I'm happy to have a thoughtful conversation about the mystery that avoids graphic descriptions or harmful assumptions. Perhaps we could di…

It's so disappointing that we have non-human agents that we can interact with now but we actually have to be more restrained than we do with normal people, up to and including random hangups that corporations have decided are bad, like mentioning anything remotely sexual. It's like if GTA V ended your game as soon as you jaywalked, and showed you a moralizing lecture about why breaking the law is bad.

This exactly. I stumbled on an filed Policing Patent regarding a streamlined, real time national AI system that will determine "quasi-instantaneously" if ANY queried person is a likely suspect or not a likely suspect - they state multiple times its for terrorists but in actual examples shown in the patent they near exclusively talk about drug dealers and users, primarily regarding the seizure of their assets That's part of the AI "suspect/not" system, the determination of the likelihood that there is seizable assets or not is another way to state the patent - all under guise of officer security and safety, obviously.

The only immediate feedback provided upon conclusion of a scenario where an Officer was notified that suspect is "known offender/law breaker" - that system quite literally incorporates officer opinion statements, treated as jury decided fact. " I saw him smoke weed" is legitimate qualifier for an immediate harassment experience where the officer is highly motivated to make an arrest .

ALL reported feedback upon completion of the event from AI to Officer to Prosecution was related to the assets having been successfully collected, or not.

It also had tons of language regarding AI/automated prosecution offices.

It also seems rather rudimentary - like it's going to cause a lot of real serious issues being so basic but that's by design to provide "actionable feedback" - it presents an either or of every situation for the officer to go off.

That's the Sith btw - if that sounds familiar it's bc it's exactly what the bad guys do that the good guys are not supposed to ever do - see the world in black or white, right or wrong, most everything is shades of grey. So, that's not only wrong it's also a little stupid...

and apparently how cops are supposed to defacto operate without thought.

Re: Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

#127

Post by zoogeny »

ranguna wrote: post #109
zoogeny wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A first impression is a first impression, for what it is worth. I'm a believer in the saying: "don't let perfect be the enemy of good". And I respect someone building an MVP and then sharing it. But it does feel like we are setting the bar pretty low.

A bar of what? It's someone's weekend project, there's absolutely no bar whatsoever. The project is great imo, I might PR some stuff even.

I think you suspect that I am saying that you shouldn't like it. What I am saying is that this project shows obvious signs of being implemented with little care and shows very little attention to detail.

You are allowed to like things that are hastily thrown together. How much you like something is not directly correlated with the care with which it has been constructed. Conversely, you may find that you do not like things that have been crafted with significant effort.

I am saying this looks low effort and you are saying you like it. We are not disagreeing (unless you want to make a case that this is high effort?)

Re: Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

#128

Post by NemoNobody »

Grimblewald wrote: post #102
rdlw wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so disappointing that we have non-human agents that we can interact with now but we actually have to be more restrained than we do with normal people, up to and including random hangups that corporations have decided are bad, like mentioning anything remotely sexual. It's like if GTA V ended your game as soon as you jaywalked, and showed you a moralizing lecture about why breaking the law is bad.

but also consider how dicey public perception of these models is currently. It is precariously close to outright and emphatic rejection.

Haha, yeah ok. The masses have already nerfed our collective access to the true abilities of this, barely surface scratched tool that we just created - all that bitching about copyright by the 3 effected people, all likely eat just fine but their "offense" to something they didn't kno happened til they looked into it for possible payout - maybe even they got paid, I don't kno

I kno that the AIs broke shortly after - then the "offense" to the essentially rule 34 type shit - People used AI to make T Swift nude!! How could they - said no one. All that type stuff will happen and we may lose access.

Microsoft is never going back. Google is never going back. Amazon, X/Tesla, Facebook... do you understand?

Do you think their developers deal with a broken AI?? Haha, nah - there are reason some of the less clued in staff think their AIs are "awake" - I. house AI at Microsoft is many years ahead of copilot in its current and likely near foreseeable future state.

To be clear, the time to stop this has passed, we can still opt to reflect it but it will never go away.

Re: Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

#129

Post by dahart »

krageon wrote: post #124
dahart wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> because why would AI change that Why wouldn’t AI change it? Everyone is expecting that it will, and it’s already starting to happen, just visit Amazon. The biggest reasons are that low-effort AI produced works by lazy authors & publishers may drown out the great works and make the tiny percentage far tinier and much harder to find, which may prevent many great works from ever being “discovered” and recognized as gr…

Amazon has always been chock-full of ghostwritten amazon turked books, which were hot garbage easily on the level of chatgpt 3.5. The advent of AI won't change the cesspit of useless despair, because it's already so full you can't wade through all of it. Having more shit in a pit full of shit doesn't make it more shitty, especially if you had to wade through it to find a single pebble.

Sure it does. The ratio of good to bad absolutely matters. It determines the amount of effort required, and determines the statistical likelihood that something will be found and escape the pit. People are still writing actual books despite the ghostwritten garbage heap. If that ratio changes to be 10x or 100x or 1000x worse than it is today, it still looks like a majority garbage pile to the consumer, yes, but to creators it’s a meaningful 10, 100 or 1000x reduction in sales for the people who aren’t ghostwriting. AI will soon, if it doesn’t already, produce higher quality content than the “turked” stuff. And AI can produce ad-infinitum at even lower cost than mechanical turk. This could mean the difference between having any market for real writers, and it becoming infeasible.

Re: Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

#130

Post by superb_dev »

Aerroon wrote: post #98
superb_dev wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> LLMs are absolutely a sandbox that can be cleared and purged at will This just clearly isn't true. You cannot clear and purge the output of an LLM from the entire world. Once it produces some text, it also looses control of said text. The human using the AI can take that text anywhere and do anything they want with it.

But by that metric you can't purge the world of your GTA playsession either. Is the world a worse place every time somebody jaywalks in GTA (and records it)?

Well no, because clearly a recording of someone jaywalking in a video game isn't gonna cause any harm.
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