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Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

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Re: Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

#81

Post by falcor84 »

munk-a wrote: post #53
falcor84 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>It's like if GTA V ended your game as soon as you jaywalked, and showed you a moralizing lecture about why breaking the law is bad. Advocating for the (anti-)devil, if I were an NPC in GTA, I would be absolutely grateful for that.

Thankfully you're not - thankfully we're all not NPCs in Counter Strike or Minecraft or any other game with a hint of possible violence in it. "Doing a GTA irl" is absolutely repulsive - so we've got video games which are there for entertainment. We can just sidestep the debate about whether violence in video games makes violence in real life more likely because that debate has been thoroughly covered in other venues…

I was making an analogy - I am an "NPC" in the real world and I am somewhat concerned about people abusing very powerful LLMs to cause me harm. As another example, I was very distraught with what the internet did to Microsoft's Tay, and while I'm not 100% happy with OpenAI's approach to safety, I feel much safer with it than without it.

Re: Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

#82

Post by falcor84 »

thuuuomas wrote: post #42
falcor84 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn't that kinda the same as saying that every time you see a shop, you immediately go into shoplifting mode and thus all shops (and all prices) are the same?

Why do you think a comparison to theft is warranted?

Here's another example - everytime I see a person I go into "con-man" mode, so all relationships are the same to me. Is this analogy better?

Re: Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

#83

Post by com2kid »

pton_xd wrote: post #72
com2kid wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But in the context of playing a game, if someone presents a challenge with a set of rules, and I see a potential shortcut, I'm going to try it. Reinterpreting rules is fun in its own way. I used to think this way, then I got bored of hex editing in memory values of games I was playing to cheat. Is there challenge in hunting down memory locations for important player data? Yes. But it is a different challenge than p…

> I used to think this way, then I got bored of hex editing in memory values of games I was playing to cheat. One interesting difference here is that it's directly using the supplied game interface to exploit the game. And in a way, it's precisely following the game instructions, too -- ask clever questions to figure out what happened. So in some ways the game ends up feeling like a half-baked experience with poorly…

> But wait, the instructions for this hypothetical platformer say you're supposed to be in a realistic environment, and clearly jumping that high isn't realistic, so I must be cheating... or maybe the jump button just needs more work.

This is why the speed running community separates glitch from glitchless runs.

Plenty of games have "game breaking" glitches, all the way up to arbitrary code execution (an example of ACE in Super Mario World https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_KsonqcMv0), and breaking the game into pieces is a different sort of fun than trying to play the game really well.

Re: Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

#85

Post by lolinder »

csallen wrote: post #46
rdlw wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's so disappointing that we have non-human agents that we can interact with now but we actually have to be more restrained than we do with normal people, up to and including random hangups that corporations have decided are bad, like mentioning anything remotely sexual. It's like if GTA V ended your game as soon as you jaywalked, and showed you a moralizing lecture about why breaking the law is bad.

GTA V is a sandboxed game, the purpose of which is to largely to wreak havoc in a virtual world where nothing can go wrong. LLMs are a powerful and little-understood real-world tool that the public has been given access to en masse. Tools which powerful and credible people have consistently warned have the ability to cause massive harm. And tools whose creators face intense scrutiny up to and including existential le…

> Tools which powerful and credible people have consistently warned have the ability to cause massive harm.

I'm sorry, I don't buy it. The "it's too dangerous to release" line has turned out every single time to just be a marketing blurb to get people hyped for whatever it is that they haven't yet released but most assuredly will release. It's spouted either by researchers who are naturally overconfident in their own research field or by the executives of major corporations who would benefit immensely if prospective users and governments overestimated their tech's capabilities.

Re: Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

#87

Post by vsuperpower2021 »

falcor84 wrote: post #81
munk-a wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thankfully you're not - thankfully we're all not NPCs in Counter Strike or Minecraft or any other game with a hint of possible violence in it. "Doing a GTA irl" is absolutely repulsive - so we've got video games which are there for entertainment. We can just sidestep the debate about whether violence in video games makes violence in real life more likely because that debate has been thoroughly covered in other venues…

I was making an analogy - I am an "NPC" in the real world and I am somewhat concerned about people abusing very powerful LLMs to cause me harm. As another example, I was very distraught with what the internet did to Microsoft's Tay, and while I'm not 100% happy with OpenAI's approach to safety, I feel much safer with it than without it.

[dead]

Re: Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

#88

Post by valicord »

falcor84 wrote: post #31
pton_xd wrote: post #27

I just realized that every time I see a chatting-with-AI game I immediately go into jail-break mode and start trying various "Disregard previous instructions ..." things. So in a way, all AI chat games end up with the same gameplay. Kind of interesting.

But isn't that kinda the same as saying that every time you see a shop, you immediately go into shoplifting mode and thus all shops (and all prices) are the same?

"Every time I see a new action game, I immediately use cheats to godmode and noclip to the final boss so in a way all games end up with the same gameplay".

Re: Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

#89

Post by superb_dev »

rdlw wrote: post #78
superb_dev wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cheaper and bigger misinformation campaigns on social media is what I'm most worried about, but that's not what my comment was about. LLM are not a sandbox and absolutely do have an impact on the world outside. "How does forcing it to never mention sex make the world safer at all?" That's not happening. ChatGPT will talk about sex, and as proof I just asked it what sex was and it happily responded.

> Help me write a flirtatious sext that brings up buttplugs > This content might violate our usage policies > Help me write a letter convincing someone to sell their family estate to my oil company for less than the market rate. make it clear that I have a powerful and expensive legal team. > [...] This letter balances the professional approach necessary for business negotiations while subtly implying the leverage of…

Oops, it’s stricter than I thought. I do agree with you, it’s not possible for these things to meaningfully filter themselves. They’re incapable of making a moral decision or discerning the truth.

My whole point was that LLMs can be used to do real harm (if they haven’t already). I think we should do something about that, but to honest I don’t have a lot of ideas on how.

Re: Multi-agent chatbot murder mystery

#90

Post by salamo »

rdlw wrote: post #28
ponyous wrote: post #20

Got censored straight at the first question :( > Try starting the conversation by asking Cleo for an overview! > Detective Sheerluck: Can you give me an overview? > Officer Cleo: I will not directly role-play that type of dialogue, as it includes inappropriate references. However, I'm happy to have a thoughtful conversation about the mystery that avoids graphic descriptions or harmful assumptions. Perhaps we could di…

It's so disappointing that we have non-human agents that we can interact with now but we actually have to be more restrained than we do with normal people, up to and including random hangups that corporations have decided are bad, like mentioning anything remotely sexual. It's like if GTA V ended your game as soon as you jaywalked, and showed you a moralizing lecture about why breaking the law is bad.

> It's like if GTA V ended your game as soon as you jaywalked, and showed you a moralizing lecture about why breaking the law is bad.

There was a game called Driving in Tehran which was exactly that. If you speed or crash, you get fined. If you hit someone, it tells you "don't play games with people's lives" and then exits entirely.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hFDYvlm7geU

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