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The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

tomforth.co.uk

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Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Public transport does certainly help and it’ll increase GDP; but I highly doubt it’s the determinant in creating the richest country per capita in the world The UK is geographically blessed. That hasn’t been an advantage recently, because the EU seemed to be working, but Alexander Hamilton’s arguments against loose political unions seem prescient as ever amidst Europe’s present rightwing lurch [1]. If Britain can g…

The image thrown around in UK media about Singapore has nothing to do with Singapore

I was thinking when the brexit folk were saying London could become Singapore on the Thames that not many of the brexit voters would be very keen on the reality of that. I like Singapore but it has a very high percentage of immigrants, a high emphasis on education and about 90% of it's housing is built by the government, all things that seem not quite in line with most brexit voters wishes. Although I could be wrong?

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Exploiting and stealing always makes you rich Colonies have Britain an edge, but plenty of nations had colonies at the time (and have throughout history). Britain became rich because it industrialised first.

No. Second: "Cotton Capital: a special investigation 2023 Cotton Capital how slavery made Manchester the world’s first industrial city" https://www.theguardian.com/news/ng-interactive/2023/apr/03/...

The cause and effect in that article seems kind of weak.

> The construction of the Bridgewater canal provided regular, cheaper coal supplies to power the new machinery and improved transport links to Liverpool. The invention of the cotton gin in 1793 proved crucial in shaping Manchester’s future.

And then because a lot of the raw cotton was supplied from slave plantations it implies the slavery caused the cotton gins, whereas I expect it was the other way around. If there had been no slavery they probably would still have got cotton from paid farmers overseas with much the same effect.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Britain has the world’s biggest empire… in part it did so because it industrialized first, but also it was able to industrialize first because of the empire. The two are deeply interlinked

The East India Company is from 1600. The Watt Steam Engine is from 1765.

I was watching a Sabine Hossenfelder youtube "Capitalism is good. Let me explain"

where she argues advances in capitalism predated and caused the industrial revolution and scientific progress. It's an interesting hypothesis.

Relevant bit in vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CRPHp2EjNR8&t=275s

The first British government bonds and companies going public were about 1693 and a little after and we had a proper market bubble and crash in 1720 so that stuff was well developed by the time of steam engines.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#104
post #6

The UK is "MBAs eating the world" on steroids, except they're History graduates who went to Eton. Not interested in actually creating anything or making anything. Money can be magically made by...shuffling money around. North Sea oil revenues provided a generation-long cover for this but now that's done. Disclosure: former UK "subject". Oh, and I forgot: allowed their country to become the "host" for Rupert Murdoch w…

> ... except they're History graduates who went to Eton

For the non-British readers here, Eton is a boarding school [0] west of London. It's where nearly all the elite members of British politics and society attend from ages 13 to 18. Like, all the royalty go there. And Harry Potter is like just cribbing from what these boarding schools do. When you hear some British actor in a movie or something say '... Old Boy, ...', they are referring being very wealthy and graduating from one of these boarding schools.

Somewhat unsurprisingly, they are nearly all child abuse nightmare zones, Eton especially. Like, there's a wiki page dedicated to the controversies there [1].

I got into looking into Eton when I was researching the history of the various football codes. Eton was the birthplace of two of the nascent footballs: The Field game [2] and the Wall game [3]. I'll skip the history lesson here and the rules briefing. The thing that stood out to me about the Wall game was the ceremony around it. Specifically, that it's played on St Andrew's Day (November 30th) by the Collegers (rich boys) and the rest of the school (slightly less rich boys). Now, the Collegers have this tradition (500+ years old) where they all get roaring drunk the night before and are trying to play this wall game really hungover, which makes it all a bit more 'fair'. They traditionally get so drunk that the little headmater-y person in charge just up and leaves for the night. So, you have 13-18 year olds, all drunk as hell, all alone, all night long, and they all kinda hate each other. Like, come on dude.

That little bit alone is just astounding to my non-British eyes and condemn the whole enterprise. But then you read a bit more about the place and it's just ghastly. Then these tortured and abused kids go on to repeat the cycle onto each other, for like hundreds of years, because tradition.

Oh, and then they all go on to run Britain.

So, next time you see some mention of Eton, just imagine Hogwarts but with just brontosaurs levels of abuse and abusers.

Britain is mental my dudes.

[0] The Limeys call them 'public schools', because something something Anglican (?) church something

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eton_College_controversies

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eton_field_game

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eton_wall_game

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#105
post #28

“I think the UK can go back to being pretty much the richest country in the world per capita, at least as rich as the USA” said Matthew Clifford This sounds very arrogant and wishful thinking considering the trajectory of UK in the last 20 years. At the global stage, UK is as irrelevant as countries like Canada and Australia, but at least Canadians and Australians don’t openly claim they can be the richest country in…

Neither Canada nor Australia used to be the wealthiest country.

Does Netherlands or Spain claim to want to be wealthiest again?

Many countries used to be wealthiest, and are no longer. uk is the one of the few arrogant ones that keeps thinking they will make a come back.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#106
post #28

“I think the UK can go back to being pretty much the richest country in the world per capita, at least as rich as the USA” said Matthew Clifford This sounds very arrogant and wishful thinking considering the trajectory of UK in the last 20 years. At the global stage, UK is as irrelevant as countries like Canada and Australia, but at least Canadians and Australians don’t openly claim they can be the richest country in…

> UK is as irrelevant as countries like Canada and Australia The UK is the world’s 6th largest economy [1]. It clocks in next to India, the 5th. It is twice as large as Russia, the sick man of Europe and neighbourhood pest, and one of the other nine nuclear powers of the world [2]. The decline you cite is also the opportunity; if Britain could get its shit together, it could reasonably grow an entire Saudi Arabia (1%…

Imagine if Germans or Japan claimed they want to be wealthiest country in the world again…

That is how it feels to the rest of the world when they hear UK thinking they want to reclaim the top spot again.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#107
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither Canada nor Australia used to be the wealthiest country.

Does Netherlands or Spain claim to want to be wealthiest again? Many countries used to be wealthiest, and are no longer. uk is the one of the few arrogant ones that keeps thinking they will make a come back.

We shouldn't conclude that UK is X or Y based on the writings of one person.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#109

Well the colonial mindset is still there, to reap benefits from the north (oil) as much as possible rather than making it self sufficient and stand up to London, Oxford and Cambridge triangle.

Yes, the UK is an empire, a much smaller one though. Scottish people haven't understood it the same way Indians did.

In terms of territory it is certainly smaller. But you might be surprised how much of the world’s assets are ultimately controlled from London.

London reminds me of Constantinople, in that as a capital of a former empire it amassed and concentrated great wealth even as its empire shrank. It’s just that Constantinople’s wealth was more tangible.

Re: The UK can go back to being the richest country in the world

#110
post #32

It has been 200 years since the industrial revolution - we know exactly what makes a society rich. Creating, or at least controlling, vast amounts of capital. Although it would be a mistake for the UK to be benchmarking itself against the rest of western Europe; much of the continent appears to be in trouble. The real question is why all the capital formation seems to have been in Asia for the last 50 years. As for t…

> The real question is why all the capital formation seems to have been in Asia for the last 50 years.

Is there any doubt? If you spend less than you earn (for example by running a current account surplus) you naturally accumulate capital, and vice versa.

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