I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup • Hacker News Board

Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#51

Post by xpose2000 » Mon, Jun 11, 2012, 1:55 AM UTC

Sorry but I disagree with this post completely. In fact, I hate articles like this.

A real developer who loves his project would never outsource major aspects of the project. One might outsource the design, only because its incredibly difficult to create a great UI and have the know-how to code it as well.

One might outsource the slicing of a layout to CSS/HTML or something simple like that while dealing with IMPORTANT issues such as database architecture, setting up the server, etc.

To suggest that you want to concentrate on the "business aspect" simply means that you don't want to do the hard part. By outsourcing, the article states: "I have more time and I can spend this time for marketing and blogging". ... Right. Because blogging and marketing is so very tough?

The truth is that you USED to be a developer. It sounds like you've realized this and outsourced the project to an actual developer. If that's the case then you've made a wise choice.

In any case, best of luck to you.

Edit: It sounds as though I am belittling other people's jobs on a project. Sorry, I guess to some degree I am? I agree that I am a bit foolish to say that. I don't mean to create any type of hostility in this thread. (Regardless I will keep my full comment here so this thread makes sense.)

My main point is that the author refers to himself as a DEVELOPER. Therefore it does not make sense to me to outsource his own specialty.

Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#52

Post by coryl » Mon, Jun 11, 2012, 2:02 AM UTC

xpose2000 wrote: post #51

Sorry but I disagree with this post completely. In fact, I hate articles like this. A real developer who loves his project would never outsource major aspects of the project. One might outsource the design, only because its incredibly difficult to create a great UI and have the know-how to code it as well. One might outsource the slicing of a layout to CSS/HTML or something simple like that while dealing with IMPORTA…

That's kind of bullshit, you've focused more on what he decides to call himself rather than what he has accomplished. Are Eric Scmidt / Larry Page are no longer "real engineers" because they manage, and not code anymore?

And yes, blogging and marketing is very tough. User acquisition is tough. A good on-boarding process is very tough. User experience is tough.

Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#53

Post by mark_l_watson » Mon, Jun 11, 2012, 2:02 AM UTC

xpose2000 wrote: post #51

Sorry but I disagree with this post completely. In fact, I hate articles like this. A real developer who loves his project would never outsource major aspects of the project. One might outsource the design, only because its incredibly difficult to create a great UI and have the know-how to code it as well. One might outsource the slicing of a layout to CSS/HTML or something simple like that while dealing with IMPORTA…

+1 I had the same reaction.

Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#54

Post by AgentConundrum » Mon, Jun 11, 2012, 2:09 AM UTC

xpose2000 wrote: post #51

Sorry but I disagree with this post completely. In fact, I hate articles like this. A real developer who loves his project would never outsource major aspects of the project. One might outsource the design, only because its incredibly difficult to create a great UI and have the know-how to code it as well. One might outsource the slicing of a layout to CSS/HTML or something simple like that while dealing with IMPORTA…

> Because blogging and marketing is so very tough?

I agree with the rest of your comment, to an extent, but I strongly disagree with this line.

The act of blogging is easy, sure - it's just typing. The act of marketing, or at least some subset of it, can be easy, I'm sure. Doing these things effectively, so that they actually drive business, is hard.

Dismissing blogging and marketing by sarcastically saying they're "so very tough" is the same sort of bullshit that we get pissed off about when people say "I have this great idea for a website/app, all I need is a coder!"

You're dismissing an entire profession without regard for the hard work that those in that profession put into their jobs.

Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#55

Post by mindcrime » Mon, Jun 11, 2012, 2:13 AM UTC

xpose2000 wrote: post #51

Sorry but I disagree with this post completely. In fact, I hate articles like this. A real developer who loves his project would never outsource major aspects of the project. One might outsource the design, only because its incredibly difficult to create a great UI and have the know-how to code it as well. One might outsource the slicing of a layout to CSS/HTML or something simple like that while dealing with IMPORTA…

A real developer who loves his project would never outsource major aspects of the project.

Obligatory: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

Secondly, I'll posit that a "true developer" (whatever that means) certainly might outsource "major aspects of his project," if he's trying to make a successful business from his project, and he needs to dedicate bandwidth to other areas of the business. Creating a business is more than just writing code.

As the old saying goes "The scarcest resource in a startup is founder bandwidth." If you can amplify your bandwidth by doing some tactical outsourcing, then you do it, as far as I'm concerned.

In fact, this post got some gears turning in my own head, and has me considering whether or not Fogbeam Labs could justify outsourcing some development work, to help speed things along. All three of the founders still work dayjobs at the moment, so a little additional development help could actually be a good thing. I'm not saying we will do it, just that I'm seriously considering the possibility for the first time.

Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#56

Post by oz » Mon, Jun 11, 2012, 2:17 AM UTC

xpose2000 wrote: post #51

Sorry but I disagree with this post completely. In fact, I hate articles like this. A real developer who loves his project would never outsource major aspects of the project. One might outsource the design, only because its incredibly difficult to create a great UI and have the know-how to code it as well. One might outsource the slicing of a layout to CSS/HTML or something simple like that while dealing with IMPORTA…

I'm really wondering if your post is sarcasm. But I'll bite. To wit:

>A real developer who loves his project would never outsource major aspects of the project.

Excuse me, but that's just the 'No True Scotsman' fallacy. You don't get to decide what makes someone a 'real developer. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

>while dealing with IMPORTANT issues such as database architecture, setting up the server, etc.

The primary focus of the founder should be to get paying customers. These paying customers could care one iota about Codd's 12 Rules, 3NF, and Chef/Puppet configuration. If you truly believe that those things are more important than getting paying customers, then you, my friend, have a hobby, not a business. The IMPORTANT thing is "getting them to sign on the line which is dotted." Not mucking about at the CLI.

>To suggest that you want to concentrate on the "business aspect" simply means that you don't want to do the hard part. By outsourcing, the article states: "I have more time and I can spend this time for marketing and blogging". ... Right. Because blogging and marketing is so very tough?

Sigh. The common engineers fallacy of thinking that creating is enough. It is not. Steve Jobs was a salesman. And I can assure you that marketing is not as simple as throwing up a wordpress blog and a facebook page. It takes real work. Which I suspect you would know if you'd ever done it.

HN: You don't get rich by agonizing over data structures and algorithms (unless you're Google). You get rich by leveraging resources so the multiplier effect works to your advantage. If the most efficient path to getting paying customers is to outsource, then do so. Kudos to OP.

Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#57

Post by nyar » Mon, Jun 11, 2012, 2:19 AM UTC

xpose2000 wrote: post #51

Sorry but I disagree with this post completely. In fact, I hate articles like this. A real developer who loves his project would never outsource major aspects of the project. One might outsource the design, only because its incredibly difficult to create a great UI and have the know-how to code it as well. One might outsource the slicing of a layout to CSS/HTML or something simple like that while dealing with IMPORTA…

Time is the real currency.

Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#58

Post by xpose2000 » Mon, Jun 11, 2012, 2:22 AM UTC

AgentConundrum wrote: post #54

xpose2000 wrote: post #51

Sorry but I disagree with this post completely. In fact, I hate articles like this. A real developer who loves his project would never outsource major aspects of the project. One might outsource the design, only because its incredibly difficult to create a great UI and have the know-how to code it as well. One might outsource the slicing of a layout to CSS/HTML or something simple like that while dealing with IMPORTA…

> Because blogging and marketing is so very tough? I agree with the rest of your comment, to an extent, but I strongly disagree with this line. The act of blogging is easy, sure - it's just typing. The act of marketing, or at least some subset of it, can be easy, I'm sure. Doing these things effectively , so that they actually drive business, is hard. Dismissing blogging and marketing by sarcastically saying they're…

I see your points here and understand your frustration. Marketing / blogging are still important to the success of a project.

Though in order of importance, I feel it's behind the actual codebase. For the author to suggest that it's okay to outsource development to have more time doing marketing and blogging when he refer's to himself as a developer is just plain ridiculous.

Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#59

Post by balloot » Mon, Jun 11, 2012, 2:23 AM UTC

xpose2000 wrote: post #51

Sorry but I disagree with this post completely. In fact, I hate articles like this. A real developer who loves his project would never outsource major aspects of the project. One might outsource the design, only because its incredibly difficult to create a great UI and have the know-how to code it as well. One might outsource the slicing of a layout to CSS/HTML or something simple like that while dealing with IMPORTA…

I think you're underselling the challenge in the parts of the business that aren't coding. Which is exactly why this guy's decision is such a bad one.

He's basically said "I have skill set X, which I'm trained in and have been honing for years. For my company, I need skill sets X and Y. So I'll do Y and find someone else to do X."

No matter what X and Y are, that's just the wrong way to solve that problem. The key issue in this case being that he is assuming the marketing/user acquisition stuff is so easy that he can just pick it up on the fly with no prior experience.

Re: I am a developer, yet I outsource the development of my startup

#60

Post by AgentConundrum » Mon, Jun 11, 2012, 2:24 AM UTC

xpose2000 wrote: post #58

AgentConundrum wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Because blogging and marketing is so very tough? I agree with the rest of your comment, to an extent, but I strongly disagree with this line. The act of blogging is easy, sure - it's just typing. The act of marketing, or at least some subset of it, can be easy, I'm sure. Doing these things effectively , so that they actually drive business, is hard. Dismissing blogging and marketing by sarcastically saying they're…

I see your points here and understand your frustration. Marketing / blogging are still important to the success of a project. Though in order of importance, I feel it's behind the actual codebase. For the author to suggest that it's okay to outsource development to have more time doing marketing and blogging when he refer's to himself as a developer is just plain ridiculous.

I didn't say I didn't understand your point. I get where you're coming from, and I don't necessarily disagree. I just didn't like the sarcastic dismissal of an entire profession.