Europe's new heavy-lift rocket, Ariane 6, made its inaugural flight

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 10, 2024, 11:40 AM UTC

inglor_cz wrote: post #103

lm28469 wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN is amazing: Europe does something > Aha it's bad why did they even try Europe doesn't do anything > Aha Europe always late, never innovate, Europe bad

As an European, this project is quite typical for Europe. Technically behind the times, serves French strategic interests, non-competitive on the private launch market. "Doing something" isn't a goal in itself. Ariane 6 in context of the 2020s is similar to programming a new MySpace app for Symbian OS right now. Hard work, costly, needs a lot of qualified workforce, and the product has very limited audience.

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jul 10, 2024, 11:41 AM UTC

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #62

MrSkelter wrote: post #47

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Falcon’s costs are a fiction. SpaceX benefits from massive taxpayer support and uses facilities built by the military and NASA. It’s not a like for like comparison especially give SpaceX keeping its books private and giving no clear public indication of how reusable its rockets really are or their refurb cost. Given Musks history of creative accounting quoting their PR numbers, the ones they pitch congress, as facts…

> SpaceX benefits from massive taxpayer support and uses facilities built by the military and NASA So does ArianeSpace [1]. (It’s majority owned by the French state. EDIT: It’s not.) > no clear public indication of how reusable its rockets really are or their refurb cost Refurb rates and turnaround times for Falcon 9 first stages are publicly documented [2]. Refurb costs are more opaque, but they’d have to be multipl…

Post by sgu999 » Wed, Jul 10, 2024, 11:44 AM UTC

627467 wrote: post #129

ddalex wrote: post #70

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If I would be begging for new development money from the parent org after just launching a new product, I would also say that the new product is obsolete and we need to work on a replacement ASAP... especially in a pork-barrel org

that's a marginal improvement in attitude than previous Arianespace leaders: > "Let us say we had ten guaranteed launches per year in Europe and we had a rocket which we can use ten times—we would build exactly one rocket per year. That makes no sense. I cannot tell my teams: 'Goodbye, see you next year!'" https://arstechnica.com/science/2018/05/ariane-chief-seems-f...

Post by TheLoafOfBread » Wed, Jul 10, 2024, 11:46 AM UTC

ur-whale wrote: post #15

nabla9 wrote: post #2

Ariane 6 exists so that European countries can get independent access to space between now and 2030s. The launch cost is almost 2x the cost of Falcon 9. Both platforms can lift 22t to LEO. 6-10 years from now Ariane Next/SALTO will aims replicate Falcon 9 efficiency and the design will be very similar: reusable, RP-1/LOX, Prometheus engine is similar reusable open cycle engine as Merlin with lots of 3D printed parts.

> 6-10 years from now Ariane Next/SALTO will aims replicate Falcon 9 efficiency and the design will be very similar: And by then, SpaceX will be 10 years ahead of them with a next-gen platform. Not a great sounding story.

Post by cubefox » Wed, Jul 10, 2024, 11:48 AM UTC

snowpid wrote: post #123

cubefox wrote: post #71

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Yeah, it seems impossible for ESA to act rationally in this regard when bound e.g. by French veto. The only opportunity would be for individual countries (like Germany) to fund such rockets alone, but that seems unlikely due to cost (and the fact that they already pay for ESA). Without substantial investment, companies like RFA don't have the means to create a larger rocket, due to heavy international competition. No…

The only opportunity would be for individual countries (like Germany) to fund such rockets alone, but that seems unlikely due to cost (and the fact that they already pay for ESA). Germany does it in its national program. https://www.dlr.de/de/ar/themen-missionen/raumfahrttechnolog...