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The Race to Seal Helium HDDs (2021)

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Re: The Race to Seal Helium HDDs (2021)

#91
Fun fact: the Rolex "deep sea" sea-dweller contains Helium and an Helium valve. I'm not too sure how they keep the Helium from escaping. James Cameron (who made the movie The Titanic) actually strapped a Rolex sea-dweller "deep sea" to a little robot submarine and sent it to 10 000 meters deep to see if Rolex was full of shit or not.

Turns out the "veblen good" did quite well and didn't break.

And James Cameron got a limited edition Rolex Sea-Dweller deep sea model named after him.

Re: The Race to Seal Helium HDDs (2021)

#92
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A gas provides a "bearing" for the heads to ride on as the disk spins below it.

Right you are, forgot about that completely! IIRC this is important to prevent a headcrash if the drive is jolted while in operation (of course within certain limits).

It's required to work at all, not just as some kind of guard rail. It's like the oil in a normal bearing, the oil isn't just to prevent a crankshaft crash in case the car is jolted while in operation, the oil is a part of the way the thing functions at all in the first place.

Re: The Race to Seal Helium HDDs (2021)

#93

Fun fact: the Rolex "deep sea" sea-dweller contains Helium and an Helium valve. I'm not too sure how they keep the Helium from escaping. James Cameron (who made the movie The Titanic) actually strapped a Rolex sea-dweller "deep sea" to a little robot submarine and sent it to 10 000 meters deep to see if Rolex was full of shit or not. Turns out the "veblen good" did quite well and didn't break. And James Cameron got a…

You have this backwards, the valve is to let the Helium out.

The watch was designed for saturation diving - people essentially living at high pressure in a pressure cylinder, breathing a mixed gas which includes a high helium percentage (as nitrogen becomes narcotic). This saved them hours of decompression every dive - just do one decompression at the end of the job.

The problem was despite all of the seals to withstand seawater, the watches would let helium in & gradually equalise the internal & external pressures. All fine until they came up to the surface, when the watch would blow the crystal off, as the helium couldn't escape quickly enough to equalise. The Helium valve is there to release this pressure on ascent.

The sea dweller was designed as a highly specialised tool for a specialised industry, before becoming luxury item.

Re: The Race to Seal Helium HDDs (2021)

#94

Fun fact: the Rolex "deep sea" sea-dweller contains Helium and an Helium valve. I'm not too sure how they keep the Helium from escaping. James Cameron (who made the movie The Titanic) actually strapped a Rolex sea-dweller "deep sea" to a little robot submarine and sent it to 10 000 meters deep to see if Rolex was full of shit or not. Turns out the "veblen good" did quite well and didn't break. And James Cameron got a…

I can't help but think of deep sea divers using helium as part of their mix, and talking in chipmunk high-pitched voices.

Re: The Race to Seal Helium HDDs (2021)

#95
post #58

What would happen if you had a rigid structure that helium could permeate, but nothing larger could, and then filled it up with helium and waited? Would most of the helium exit, until it was balanced with just the partial pressure of helium in the atmosphere? That would be nearly a vacuum, wouldn't it?

It would create an almost perfect vacuum. You could then extract work by collapsing the vessel. The free energy for the work would come from putting the trapped helium (state 1) in a higher entropy state (state 2).

For what it's worth, this is done industrially to separate gasses using porous membranes.

Re: The Race to Seal Helium HDDs (2021)

#96
post #66
post #58

What would happen if you had a rigid structure that helium could permeate, but nothing larger could, and then filled it up with helium and waited? Would most of the helium exit, until it was balanced with just the partial pressure of helium in the atmosphere? That would be nearly a vacuum, wouldn't it?

Pretty sure it would simply equalize to the external pressure. Consider it another way. If you have such a device with a vacuum inside, would it not pull in the external helium over time to reduce the vacuum?

A real material would. But thermodynamically OP is right, you'd get a vacuum.

Re: The Race to Seal Helium HDDs (2021)

#97

Are HDD's a significant consumer of the world's helium, in the scheme of things? I had thought helium was used only in a few bleeding edge drives, and they went to normal air as the tech matured.

Helium in the atmosphere is almost two orders of magnitude more common than xenon and three times as concentrated than krypton. Both are extracted from air.

Even though He is constantly venting to space, alpha emitters keep replenishing it.

Cheap helium from 7% CH4 wells is not going to last. But we're not going to run out of He. Just the energy to extract it.

Re: The Race to Seal Helium HDDs (2021)

#98
post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty sure it would simply equalize to the external pressure. Consider it another way. If you have such a device with a vacuum inside, would it not pull in the external helium over time to reduce the vacuum?

> Pretty sure it would simply equalize to the external pressure. External partial pressure of helium which is extremely low. > Consider it another way. If you have such a device with a vacuum inside, would it not pull in the external helium over time to reduce the vacuum? It would, but only until the partial pressure of helium inside is equal to the partial pressure of helium outside (assuming the membrane is permeab…

[dead]

Re: The Race to Seal Helium HDDs (2021)

#99
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe magnetism could work. HDD platters take very strong fields to change magnetization these days, so erasing the data with the positioning magnet(s) seems avoidable.

So write too many zeros to your drive, the disk becomes demagnetized, and the head will crash?

Essentially the same problem as with fiber optics. The data can't be recovered unless there are frequent bit transitions. In that case the data is transformed to ensure illegal patterns cannot occur.

Re: The Race to Seal Helium HDDs (2021)

#100
post #94

Fun fact: the Rolex "deep sea" sea-dweller contains Helium and an Helium valve. I'm not too sure how they keep the Helium from escaping. James Cameron (who made the movie The Titanic) actually strapped a Rolex sea-dweller "deep sea" to a little robot submarine and sent it to 10 000 meters deep to see if Rolex was full of shit or not. Turns out the "veblen good" did quite well and didn't break. And James Cameron got a…

I can't help but think of deep sea divers using helium as part of their mix, and talking in chipmunk high-pitched voices.

Here's a phone call between US President Lyndon B. Johnson and Sealab 2 who were doing just that:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wusrtGfjzZg

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