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Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

autoweek.com

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Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#181

Post by angrygoat »

floren wrote: post #10

Leaving aside the myriad political & economic implications of this, my VW's navigation quite frequently thinks I'm on a different road, or it misses a speed limit sign, etc. It's bad enough when it jerks the wheel a little because it got confused by an off-ramp, or slams on the brakes in the parking lot because someone is walking a mere 30 yards behind me, but boy if my car started dropping speed to 35 because it con…

My car has this stuff in it too (BYD Dolphin) and it's a mixed bag. I find the "watch out, car/object moving into your path" stuff really useful – here in Australia, driving in the bush, it's picked up roos I'd likely have missed otherwise.

It whinges if it thinks I'm speeding, but it's often totally wrong on the speed limit: reading the wrong signs, holding a lower limit when I've turned onto a road with a higher limit. I find the alerts extremely distracting, and unfortunately they use the same sound as alerts I might want to know about. It also makes that same sound every time it reads a new sign. And then it feels the need to claim I'm speeding all over again, even if the limit hasn't changed.

I turn it off most times I get in the car, although there's no shortcut for it, so it's just a constant annoyance: the car won't remember the setting.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#182

Post by stavros »

novagameco wrote: post #174
stavros wrote: post #63

Leaving aside the concerns about the tech not working well, I'm really not a fan of this pre-crime stuff. This feels very Big Brother, where someone (or some system) is watching over you so you don't break any laws. Things like this lead to cultural ossification and are a nightmare scenario for me.

But on the highway they are watching over you so you don't break any laws. They have police officers who patrol the highways and traffic cameras. If this had any implications on people's basic human rights, I might agree but driving is a privilege, not a right.

It's very different to watch 1% of drivers, 1% of the time, and to watch 100% of drivers, 100% of the time.

There's no room for change if law enforcement is absolute. Imagine if gay people could never sex, because a microchip zapped their brain whenever they got a sexual thought about a member of the same sex. Homosexuality would still be illegal.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#183

Post by mikeyouse »

oaththrowaway wrote: post #65
Lammy wrote: post #48

I am going to hold on to my 2013 car for as long as possible. Fuck this future where everything “““needs””” to spy on me and everywhere I go.

Even my 2013 has OnStar. I gotta figure out how to kill that as well

AFAIK - pre-2015 OnStar used 2G cellular radios which no longer work since we shutdown that cellular network a few years ago. You can check your VIN here to verify but I don't think you have anything to worry about: https://activate.onstar.com/en-US

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#184

Post by SECProto »

giantrobot wrote: post #172
kodt wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could make it impossible or dangerous to pass in many situations where it may be necessary to temporarily exceed the speed limit.

Good regulation would only mandate a driver warning. If you exceed the highest speed of any highway in the area, you get some audible/visual warning. In the case of you speeding but not realizing it you just ease up on the accelerator. In the case of needing to pass you just deal with an annoying beep for a few seconds. Reducing control authority in a vehicle is very dangerous. It's difficult to make it obvious contr…

> Good regulation would only mandate a driver warning

Then you must be in favour of this regulation. From the article:

> The EU regulations permit a system that can use a cascaded acoustic warning, a cascaded vibrating warning, an accelerator pedal with haptic feedback, or a speed control function in which the speed of the vehicle will be gradually reduced [...] the first two options may not quite compel any actual changes in speed on the part of the vehicle, and that's by design. They will also have to be short in duration not to annoy the driver.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#185

Post by Boltgolt »

stavros wrote: post #63

Leaving aside the concerns about the tech not working well, I'm really not a fan of this pre-crime stuff. This feels very Big Brother, where someone (or some system) is watching over you so you don't break any laws. Things like this lead to cultural ossification and are a nightmare scenario for me.

Is it "pre-crime" if it activates once you are speeding? Surely we can agree that is a crime

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#186

Post by its_ethan »

ryandrake wrote: post #36
gruturo wrote: post #18

This is terrifying. I routinely cross a bridge with a 30ton weight limit, which my car mistakes for a 30km/h speed limit sign. I would cause an average of 2 accidents per month if I suddenly slowed from 70 to 30 and the people behind me weren't paying attention. The technology is _not_ there and this won't save lives, potentially it will cause deaths. (Yes I read the article, this is initially only "for the driver's…

Yea, yea, people are going to get into accidents and maybe die, but think about all the shareholder value that will be created by companies as they try to make these systems barely work and sell them to car manufacturers who are mandated to buy them! Won't someone please think of the shareholder value for a change? EDIT: Jeez, nobody gets sarcasm unless you end your post with /s

Here, it looks like you dropped this:

https://cloudflare-cdn.ncmedical.com/images/dynamic/768x768/...

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#187

Post by bigfudge »

ryandrake wrote: post #101
lolinder wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but I can hazard some guesses: * Very few people drive the speed limit, so you're now stuck at being the slowest car on the road. (This will still be a problem under this law because new vehicles are the only ones affected.) * Inaccurate/out of date speed limits. * Impossible to pass anyone on a two lane road. * Having the car take over control is very disorienting for a skilled driver who expects the machine…

> Very few people drive the speed limit, so you're now stuck at being the slowest car on the road. (This will still be a problem under this law because new vehicles are the only ones affected.) This is by far the most dangerous part. When you're on a freeway where everyone is driving 80-85MPH and you are driving the speed limit of 65MPH, you are the danger to the road. Speed may make accidents deadlier, but the speed…

Do you have any evidence this is the case? All the research I’ve ever read has said that speed is the major contributing factor to injury and death. Also, if this gets mandated then you would very soon not be the only car limited.

These kinds of arguments are annoying because they don’t address the detail of what is proposed here (mostly warnings in car) or the likely dynamics of future changes.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#188

Post by novagameco »

stavros wrote: post #182
novagameco wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But on the highway they are watching over you so you don't break any laws. They have police officers who patrol the highways and traffic cameras. If this had any implications on people's basic human rights, I might agree but driving is a privilege, not a right.

It's very different to watch 1% of drivers, 1% of the time, and to watch 100% of drivers, 100% of the time. There's no room for change if law enforcement is absolute. Imagine if gay people could never sex, because a microchip zapped their brain whenever they got a sexual thought about a member of the same sex. Homosexuality would still be illegal.

Putting a microchip in people's brains is a completely different thing than putting a microchip in people's cars. People have a right to bodily autonomy; they don't have a right to drive a car. The first would violate human rights on principle alone, the second has no implication on human rights

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#189

Post by 8xeh »

skrebbel wrote: post #164

I’d hate for this to become mandatory but at the same time you’ll pry my Ford’s slightly intelligent speed limiter from my cold dead hands. If this change in law means that somehow cars become better at reading speed limit signs (radio signals on roads or sth? maintained by the people who put up the signs? no idea but this gives it a mandate), then I’m only going to love it more. Though if they make it obligatory to…

Please make speed limit signs broadcast speeds by radio!

That would be incredible. If the road noise outside my house gets too loud, I can transmit a lower speed limit instead of turning up my TV.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#190

Post by stavros »

Boltgolt wrote: post #185
stavros wrote: post #63

Leaving aside the concerns about the tech not working well, I'm really not a fan of this pre-crime stuff. This feels very Big Brother, where someone (or some system) is watching over you so you don't break any laws. Things like this lead to cultural ossification and are a nightmare scenario for me.

Is it "pre-crime" if it activates once you are speeding? Surely we can agree that is a crime

Not if it makes it so you can't speed.
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