Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#161

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:42 PM UTC

matsemann wrote: post #109

umvi wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The question is: will this prevent more deaths [than the alternative] I hate that question. It's pure utilitarianism and is used all the time to rationalize removing/limiting freedoms in exchange for safety and security. Deaths prevented should not be the ultimate metric unless a totalitarian police state that keeps everyone perfectly safe at all times is the desired end goal. In this case I would rather have the f…

Driving above the limit isn't a "freedom". Driving is a privilege. Hence why it needs training and a certificate.

[deleted]

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#162

Post by DoingIsLearning » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:42 PM UTC

galdosdi wrote: post #61

Or, just add speed bumps, curves, narrowings in the road, etc, to naturally bring the speed down. Then it works on everyone, whether they have the nanny tech or not, and you avoid the difficult problem of determining the speed limit accurately 100% of the time across every segment of road everywhere. This is kind of like the (apocryphal) "NASA spent millions on a pen that would work without gravity; russians just use…

Not sure why you are getting downvoted.

Urban design is a much more effective approach to saving lives (a large fraction of speeding deaths are pedestrians) with the bonus of giving large areas of the city back to pedestrians.

"Traffic calming" is a well established evidence based field. [0]

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_calming

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#163

Post by synecdoche » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:42 PM UTC

zehaeva wrote: post #129

cogman10 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's the highest legal speed limit in the country in which the car was sold? Set a global speed limit to that. Bad move. Particularly because scenarios where lanes end somewhat unexpectedly are not uncommon (think construction). Further, legislation can change the highest legal speed limit at the drop of a hat. It's the "why are timezones so hard" problem times 10.

So the solution to a lane ending unexpectedly is to speed up? One would imagine that slowing down or even stopping would be the correct solution there.

Probably most of the time, but not every time. Which strategy is best in different situations cannot easily be predicted I'd imagine.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#164

Post by skrebbel » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:42 PM UTC

I’d hate for this to become mandatory but at the same time you’ll pry my Ford’s slightly intelligent speed limiter from my cold dead hands. If this change in law means that somehow cars become better at reading speed limit signs (radio signals on roads or sth? maintained by the people who put up the signs? no idea but this gives it a mandate), then I’m only going to love it more.

Though if they make it obligatory to turn on and/or annoying, i’m going to be angry. That shit is going to only make Audi drivers more frustrated than they already are.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#165

Post by its_ethan » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:42 PM UTC

parl_match wrote: post #117

gruturo wrote: post #18

This is terrifying. I routinely cross a bridge with a 30ton weight limit, which my car mistakes for a 30km/h speed limit sign. I would cause an average of 2 accidents per month if I suddenly slowed from 70 to 30 and the people behind me weren't paying attention. The technology is _not_ there and this won't save lives, potentially it will cause deaths. (Yes I read the article, this is initially only "for the driver's…

> Yes I read the article Then you'd read that automatic slowing was one of many options, and it's gradual. > but it's the first step in a very wrong direction Please explain how, because your current complaint is not based in reality.

If cars are required by law to have speed limiting, that means they can know when and where a car is speeding. Cars are closely tied to their owners in many ways (registration, insurance, etc.). One way this could be seen as being a step in the wrong direction is that it not only sets a precedent for collecting that information, but is forcing car manufacturers to start building up that ability.

I personally think it's pretty obvious why people might not want an entity (public governments, or private companies) to have access to that kind of information. You might say well that's all easily mitigated by encrypting the data or making tracking individuals illegal, to which I would ask: what gives you any confidence that the EU (or any government) would enforce/protect that, when there's evidence they are actively anti-encryption and pro-snooping in other domains?

If you need to be walked through the reasoning behind why it might be a bad idea to ~allow~ require these systems to be built, idk what to tell you lol

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#166

Post by beaeglebeachedd » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:43 PM UTC

krastanov wrote: post #118

EricE wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it though? When has government regulation ever decreased? Give them an inch...

There are pretty easy examples of decreasing regulations, both in the US and in Europe. The US is particularly easy to come up with examples: the supreme court has banished many regulations, reverting to more laissez faire states, whether related to gun control, campaign finances, TV broadcast rules, rules on marriage, the scope of CDC's or EPA's power, etc. The tax system gets simplified every few decades, after it…

Gun control has gotten looser on state level. Federal seems to get worse every couple decades. It started with the NFA, then the GCA, then the hughes amendment. Finally everything became a felony so they just disarmed undesirable people and races that way.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#167

Post by morgunkorn » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:43 PM UTC

We're driving a Tesla Model 3 refresh 2024, and it has the speed nag at every start up. It also has a lot of wrong speeds for portions of roads around our place.

Sometimes it's temporary speed limits that were set during road construction and then never went away, sometimes it doesn't understand that you left a type of road and went onto another one with a different default speed limit, it's pretty infuriating.

And that's a car that has cameras all around, onboard image analysis software and permanent internet connection. I can't imagine how that'd even work in cars with less capabilities.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#168

Post by masterj » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:43 PM UTC

akira2501 wrote: post #85

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Literally everything causes death. The question is: will this prevent more deaths from speeding than it causes from mistaken slowdowns?

Is the category of "deaths from speeding" large enough to justify any action whatsoever? Are "deaths from speeding" typically single vehicle or multiple vehicle accidents? Why does the Autobahn still not have speed limits on large parts of the road and why does this not cause massive problems?

> Is the category of "deaths from speeding" large enough to justify any action whatsoever?

Cars kill 40k+ people in the US each year, and speed (really momentum) is a large factor in the lethality of crashes.

> Why does the Autobahn still not have speed limits on large parts of the road and why does this not cause massive problems?

It's designed for these speeds. Most speeding issues do not occur on highways, but on local roads.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#169

Post by bluefirebrand » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:43 PM UTC

zehaeva wrote: post #129

cogman10 wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What's the highest legal speed limit in the country in which the car was sold? Set a global speed limit to that. Bad move. Particularly because scenarios where lanes end somewhat unexpectedly are not uncommon (think construction). Further, legislation can change the highest legal speed limit at the drop of a hat. It's the "why are timezones so hard" problem times 10.

So the solution to a lane ending unexpectedly is to speed up? One would imagine that slowing down or even stopping would be the correct solution there.

Stopping in traffic is almost never the safest option

If you are approaching and have room but someone is closing the gap, it may indeed be safer to speed up so you can take the spot before it closes and you are forced to stop

Granted, drivers should not be taking away the room you need to merge, but if everyone on the road were good drivers then we might not be seeking such nannying tech built into our cars to force them to drive better

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#170

Post by robertlagrant » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:43 PM UTC

prions wrote: post #53

robertlagrant wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ebikes go where bikes go, that's why. They can mingle with pedestrians. They don't require a licence to operate.

Class B and C mopeds in NYC are speed limited and require a license and registration

Can you explain your point?