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Judge dismisses DMCA copyright claim in GitHub Copilot suit

theregister.com

11–20 of 505 posts

Re: Judge dismisses DMCA copyright claim in GitHub Copilot suit

#11
post #2

copilot was apparently snipping license bearing comments, and applying "semantic" variations of the remaining code. i would package the entire code as a series of comments, [ideally this would be snipped by the pliagarists] leaving a snippet of example code that no one of sound mind would allow to execute, being proffered by copilot.

> of sound mind That's a reach, these days... I'm seeing some really ... interesting ... behavior, being exhibited by folks that, at first blush, I think are kids, just out of bootcamp, but, on further inspection, turn out to be middle-aged professionals. I really think Teh Internets Tubes have been rather corrosive to collective mental health.

The ability to think for oneself will diminish rapidly in an environment that rewards one for not doing so.

Smart people still exist. They just aren't online.

Re: Judge dismisses DMCA copyright claim in GitHub Copilot suit

#12
post #3

This is pretty interesting, and I have conflicted feelings about the (seemingly obvious) outcome of this trial. I wonder, if MS and OpenAI win, does that mean it will be legal for anyone to take the leaked source code for a proprietary product, train an LLM on it, and then ask the LLM to emit a version of it that is different enough to avoid copyright infringement? That would be quite the double-edged sword for propr…

I suspect that this is exactly what will happen; not just with code, but also prose and artwork. Someone is likely to design an LLM that is specifically trained to do exactly that. Lots of money to be made...

On the matter of artwork there's no need for suspicion - it is and has been happening for a while now. There are entire online databases dedicated to providing non-consenting artist's "styles" as downloadable model parameters by name.

Re: Judge dismisses DMCA copyright claim in GitHub Copilot suit

#13
post #2

copilot was apparently snipping license bearing comments, and applying "semantic" variations of the remaining code. i would package the entire code as a series of comments, [ideally this would be snipped by the pliagarists] leaving a snippet of example code that no one of sound mind would allow to execute, being proffered by copilot.

> of sound mind That's a reach, these days... I'm seeing some really ... interesting ... behavior, being exhibited by folks that, at first blush, I think are kids, just out of bootcamp, but, on further inspection, turn out to be middle-aged professionals. I really think Teh Internets Tubes have been rather corrosive to collective mental health.

..that suggests there is actually a chance that someone would go for such a boobytrap.

Re: Judge dismisses DMCA copyright claim in GitHub Copilot suit

#14
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> of sound mind That's a reach, these days... I'm seeing some really ... interesting ... behavior, being exhibited by folks that, at first blush, I think are kids, just out of bootcamp, but, on further inspection, turn out to be middle-aged professionals. I really think Teh Internets Tubes have been rather corrosive to collective mental health.

The ability to think for oneself will diminish rapidly in an environment that rewards one for not doing so. Smart people still exist. They just aren't online.

Suicide by words, here?

Re: Judge dismisses DMCA copyright claim in GitHub Copilot suit

#15
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that this is exactly what will happen; not just with code, but also prose and artwork. Someone is likely to design an LLM that is specifically trained to do exactly that. Lots of money to be made...

On the matter of artwork there's no need for suspicion - it is and has been happening for a while now. There are entire online databases dedicated to providing non-consenting artist's "styles" as downloadable model parameters by name.

Try getting Mickey Mouse comics.

That should be fun...

Re: Judge dismisses DMCA copyright claim in GitHub Copilot suit

#16
post #3

This is pretty interesting, and I have conflicted feelings about the (seemingly obvious) outcome of this trial. I wonder, if MS and OpenAI win, does that mean it will be legal for anyone to take the leaked source code for a proprietary product, train an LLM on it, and then ask the LLM to emit a version of it that is different enough to avoid copyright infringement? That would be quite the double-edged sword for propr…

Not unless a big company is the one doing it lol

Re: Judge dismisses DMCA copyright claim in GitHub Copilot suit

#17
post #9

This kind of argument makes me feel like it also supports the abolition of patents: eventually multiple other people will come up with the same obvious solution, which becomes obvious once a person spends enough time looking at a problem.

The Patent System is not intended to be a test of exclusive original thought.

The function of the Patent System is to incentivize search for solutions by temporarily securing exclusive right to market novel devices and processes for the discoverer.

Re: Judge dismisses DMCA copyright claim in GitHub Copilot suit

#18
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect that this is exactly what will happen; not just with code, but also prose and artwork. Someone is likely to design an LLM that is specifically trained to do exactly that. Lots of money to be made...

On the matter of artwork there's no need for suspicion - it is and has been happening for a while now. There are entire online databases dedicated to providing non-consenting artist's "styles" as downloadable model parameters by name.

Style is not copyrightable so I see nothing wrong with making essentially a robot that can paint in the style of someone else.

Re: Judge dismisses DMCA copyright claim in GitHub Copilot suit

#19
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> of sound mind That's a reach, these days... I'm seeing some really ... interesting ... behavior, being exhibited by folks that, at first blush, I think are kids, just out of bootcamp, but, on further inspection, turn out to be middle-aged professionals. I really think Teh Internets Tubes have been rather corrosive to collective mental health.

The ability to think for oneself will diminish rapidly in an environment that rewards one for not doing so. Smart people still exist. They just aren't online.

From Plato's dialogue Phaedrus 14, 274c-275b:

Socrates: I heard, then, that at Naucratis, in Egypt, was one of the ancient gods of that country, the one whose sacred bird is called the ibis, and the name of the god himself was Theuth. He it was who invented numbers and arithmetic and geometry and astronomy, also draughts and dice, and, most important of all, letters.

Now the king of all Egypt at that time was the god Thamus, who lived in the great city of the upper region, which the Greeks call the Egyptian Thebes, and they call the god himself Ammon. To him came Theuth to show his inventions, saying that they ought to be imparted to the other Egyptians. But Thamus asked what use there was in each, and as Theuth enumerated their uses, expressed praise or blame, according as he approved or disapproved.

"The story goes that Thamus said many things to Theuth in praise or blame of the various arts, which it would take too long to repeat; but when they came to the letters, "This invention, O king," said Theuth, "will make the Egyptians wiser and will improve their memories; for it is an elixir of memory and wisdom that I have discovered." But Thamus replied, "Most ingenious Theuth, one man has the ability to beget arts, but the ability to judge of their usefulness or harmfulness to their users belongs to another; and now you, who are the father of letters, have been led by your affection to ascribe to them a power the opposite of that which they really possess.

"For this invention will produce forgetfulness in the minds of those who learn to use it, because they will not practice their memory. Their trust in writing, produced by external characters which are no part of themselves, will discourage the use of their own memory within them. You have invented an elixir not of memory, but of reminding; and you offer your pupils the appearance of wisdom, not true wisdom, for they will read many things without instruction and will therefore seem to know many things, when they are for the most part ignorant and hard to get along with, since they are not wise, but only appear wise."

Re: Judge dismisses DMCA copyright claim in GitHub Copilot suit

#20
I thought "the Copilot coding assistant was trained on open source software hosted on GitHub and as such would suggest snippets from those public projects to other programmers without care for licenses" was explicitly allowed by the GitHub Terms of Service: https://docs.github.com/en/site-policy/github-terms/github-t... "If you set your pages and repositories to be viewed publicly, you grant each User of GitHub a nonexclusive, worldwide license to use, display, and perform Your Content through the GitHub Service." In other words, in addition to what's allowed by the LICENSE file in your repo, you are also separately licensing your code "to use ... through the GitHub Service" and this would (in my interpretation) include use by Copilot for training, and use by Copilot to deliver snippets to any other GitHub user.
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