Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars • Hacker News Board

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#71

Post by leephillips » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:20 PM UTC

gruturo wrote: post #18

This is terrifying. I routinely cross a bridge with a 30ton weight limit, which my car mistakes for a 30km/h speed limit sign. I would cause an average of 2 accidents per month if I suddenly slowed from 70 to 30 and the people behind me weren't paying attention. The technology is _not_ there and this won't save lives, potentially it will cause deaths. (Yes I read the article, this is initially only "for the driver's…

This is the fallacy of the slippery slope. The regulation is not necessarily a first step. It can and might very well stop at the driver alert stage. To become an automatic speed limiter would be a new set of regulations, with a new debate and regulatory process behind it.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#72

Post by causalmodels » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:20 PM UTC

VyseofArcadia wrote: post #25

gambiting wrote: post #9

This is one example of legislation that mandates fantasy tech that doesn't exist. You'd think that something as simple as speed limiter should be very easy to implement, and it couldn't be further from the truth - watch any review of a car with this tech and every reviewer will complain that it's not the presence of the system that's the problem, it's the fact that it constantly gets the speed limit wrong. Either rea…

Agreed that the general case is hard to solve. I think you could at least make a case for solving a simpler problem. What's the highest legal speed limit in the country in which the car was sold? Set a global speed limit to that.

Doesn't the autobahn have unrestricted sections with no speed limit?

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#73

Post by nexuist » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:20 PM UTC

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #29

gruturo wrote: post #18

This is terrifying. I routinely cross a bridge with a 30ton weight limit, which my car mistakes for a 30km/h speed limit sign. I would cause an average of 2 accidents per month if I suddenly slowed from 70 to 30 and the people behind me weren't paying attention. The technology is _not_ there and this won't save lives, potentially it will cause deaths. (Yes I read the article, this is initially only "for the driver's…

This uses GPS data, not optical recognition

Awesome, so in addition to confusing aircraft and sending them in the wrong directions, Putin can also stop everyone from driving in Europe whenever he feels like it.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#74

Post by ncruces » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:20 PM UTC

VyseofArcadia wrote: post #25

gambiting wrote: post #9

This is one example of legislation that mandates fantasy tech that doesn't exist. You'd think that something as simple as speed limiter should be very easy to implement, and it couldn't be further from the truth - watch any review of a car with this tech and every reviewer will complain that it's not the presence of the system that's the problem, it's the fact that it constantly gets the speed limit wrong. Either rea…

Agreed that the general case is hard to solve. I think you could at least make a case for solving a simpler problem. What's the highest legal speed limit in the country in which the car was sold? Set a global speed limit to that.

Yeah, this. Geofencing countries would work for highway speeds (except for Germany, but that's their problem to fix).

But it won't do much to reduce pedestrian fatalities, unless you allow cities to (roughly) geofence lower limits.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#75

Post by eigenket » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:21 PM UTC

gruturo wrote: post #18

This is terrifying. I routinely cross a bridge with a 30ton weight limit, which my car mistakes for a 30km/h speed limit sign. I would cause an average of 2 accidents per month if I suddenly slowed from 70 to 30 and the people behind me weren't paying attention. The technology is _not_ there and this won't save lives, potentially it will cause deaths. (Yes I read the article, this is initially only "for the driver's…

>There will be four ways in which ISA systems will work to slow the vehicle down, and it will be up to the manufacturers to pick which one they want to use. The EU regulations permit a system that can use a cascaded acoustic warning, a cascaded vibrating warning, an accelerator pedal with haptic feedback, or a speed control function in which the speed of the vehicle will be gradually reduced.

Haptic feedback isn't gonna kill anyone anytime soon.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#76

Post by galdosdi » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:21 PM UTC

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #44

lolinder wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but I can hazard some guesses: * Very few people drive the speed limit, so you're now stuck at being the slowest car on the road. (This will still be a problem under this law because new vehicles are the only ones affected.) * Inaccurate/out of date speed limits. * Impossible to pass anyone on a two lane road. * Having the car take over control is very disorienting for a skilled driver who expects the machine…

The first doesn't really win any sympathy from me lol. People should drive the speed limit, and I have no sympathy for people who tell me about getting pulled over by cops

No, OTHER people, not the driver. He's saying OTHER PEOPLE drive over the limit, and OTHER PEOPLE are NOT in your control, so "haveing no sympathy" is irrelevant here. You have no sympathy for me when i find myself driving amongst others who drive above the limit? Their speeds are not in my control. Only mine is. And if the limiter prevents me from going the same speeds as everyone around me, I will be constantly passed and in greater danger of wrecking.

Do you even have a drivers' license? You evince very little familiarity with practical every day driving. If you are a driver, how many years experience in which countries? It would help us gauge the relevance of your comments -- different countries have different driving cultures.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#77

Post by adrianN » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:21 PM UTC

robertlagrant wrote: post #37

prions wrote: post #17

Bit funny how the article states that the systems are unobtrusive as to be essentially useless, which ignores the fact that these systems are defanged to appease entitled speeders. Governments around the world impose various requirements on vehicle speeds, most notably ebikes being capped at 20mph for "safety reasons". Meanwhile private cars can travel at over 100mph for no apparent reason other than to not upset dri…

Ebikes go where bikes go, that's why. They can mingle with pedestrians. They don't require a licence to operate.

Cars mingle with pedestrians and cyclists every day.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#78

Post by jvanderbot » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:21 PM UTC

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #42

gruturo wrote: post #18

This is terrifying. I routinely cross a bridge with a 30ton weight limit, which my car mistakes for a 30km/h speed limit sign. I would cause an average of 2 accidents per month if I suddenly slowed from 70 to 30 and the people behind me weren't paying attention. The technology is _not_ there and this won't save lives, potentially it will cause deaths. (Yes I read the article, this is initially only "for the driver's…

Literally everything causes death. The question is: will this prevent more deaths from speeding than it causes from mistaken slowdowns?

I wonder how long we can ignore the natural human tendancy to need blame / attribution.

The way I think about it is: If, in the limiting case, we replace all driver mistakes with software mistakes, and there's 1/2 as many deaths from these mistakes, but they are uniformly distributed, I am honestly not sure how acceptable this would be to the public. It's like sacrificing people randomly to disallow dangerous drivers from causing accidents, even when those accidents would probably have disproportionately affected those very same dangerous drivers (and anyone nearby).

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#79

Post by ars » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:21 PM UTC

shortrounddev2 wrote: post #29

gruturo wrote: post #18

This is terrifying. I routinely cross a bridge with a 30ton weight limit, which my car mistakes for a 30km/h speed limit sign. I would cause an average of 2 accidents per month if I suddenly slowed from 70 to 30 and the people behind me weren't paying attention. The technology is _not_ there and this won't save lives, potentially it will cause deaths. (Yes I read the article, this is initially only "for the driver's…

This uses GPS data, not optical recognition

The article said it uses optical recognition.

And in any case GPS is not accurate enough for this. If you drive an access road right near a freeway GPS can not tell which one your are on.

GPS also doesn't work in many downtowns because of the tall buildings.

Re: Speed limiters now mandatory in all new EU cars

#80

Post by addicted » Tue, Jul 09, 2024, 7:21 PM UTC

EricE wrote: post #64

scoot wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apparently you didn't. The most proactive method is "a speed control function in which the speed of the vehicle will be gradually reduced", and "the system can be smoothly overridden by the driver by pressing the accelerator pedal a little bit deeper", so your hyperbolic reaction is overwrought.

Is it though? When has government regulation ever decreased? Give them an inch...

Government regulations today, at least in the U.S. and the UK, are a fraction of what they used to be in the post WW 20th century.

Government regulations have been getting weaker pretty much my entire living memory.