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Another AI company wrote us and here’s our response

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Re: Another AI company wrote us and here’s our response

#151

Post by anal_reactor »

voidfunc wrote: post #7
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #4

> most artists love their work and do not want to outsource their passion to a machine that does this for them. This was the money quote. I love what I do (which tends to be programming, but I approach it as a craft), and often do things by hand, that others automate, because I love my work, and also the people that use it.

Most artists, like most programmers are working in a commercial capacity. I see no reason why "their passion" should overrule profit-seeking. Do art for the sake of art on your own time. But expecting companies to not embrace AI to do their jobs is foolish just like it's foolish to think corporate programmers will be a thing at some point in the future.

> Most artists, like most programmers are working in a commercial capacity. I see no reason why "their passion" should overrule profit-seeking.

Ding ding ding.

I think that we're already experiencing all the downsides of having AI-generated content. Look at high-budget movies - they're completely bland, tell nothing, they're only optimized for getting money out of average uneducated customer. Ubisoft is known for making all games according to same template that works and makes money. Mobile gaming lasted three entire months before it was overtaken by those profit-driven.

Some time ago I went to an expensive concert, and I realized... those guys got loaded by playing literally the same songs they've been playing for twenty years. They found the golden formula and they keep on riding it.

Turning to AI only cuts the middle man.

I turned towards independent creators because those guys have a passion and want to share it. So not all hope is lost. It's just that true artists are going to be the minority, just like they always were, while the rest will keep slurping up the commercial slop, just like they always have.

Re: Another AI company wrote us and here’s our response

#152

Post by anal_reactor »

ToucanLoucan wrote: post #21
voidfunc wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most artists, like most programmers are working in a commercial capacity. I see no reason why "their passion" should overrule profit-seeking. Do art for the sake of art on your own time. But expecting companies to not embrace AI to do their jobs is foolish just like it's foolish to think corporate programmers will be a thing at some point in the future.

> Most artists, like most programmers are working in a commercial capacity. I see no reason why "their passion" should overrule profit-seeking. The obsession that everything must go in a financial box or be relegated to the increasingly diminished "free time" available to oneself is a cancer that is destroying our society. Things that are profitable =/= things that have value to people. They often coincide but it is…

> Money is not everything.

What's your TC?

Re: Another AI company wrote us and here’s our response

#153

Post by falcolas »

lovethevoid wrote: post #141
falcolas wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> many people who are bad at art and writing The thing is, you can get better at these. They are just creative skills that get better with practice (much like coding et.al.). And the skill will let you do things you can't do with AI. > are fine doing laundry and dishes since they're good at that and we have already automated 99% of it with dishwashers and dryers. With the minimal amount of sarcasm or ill intent possi…

You can also get better at those skills while also using AI. It’s not really an absolute. You can generate outlines sketches so you can practice shading techniques as a simple example. There are also those who don’t want to get better at those skills, as those skills are just a temporary medium. For example someone making pottery might be terrible at drawing and creating ideas, so they generate some and then get to w…

Using AI is not free, in either price nor time. If all the time spent iterating over prompts to get the "right" output was instead spent working on skills, you (the royal you) could get a lot better at drawing/writing right off the bat.

I've lurked through a few AI art boards, and the number of times people will spend dozens if not hundreds of hours iterating through prompts to get a simple anime character just right is mind boggling.

Can AI create references? Certainly. Will they be more detailed than what a potter can create in a similar timeframe? Probably. Will they be accurate to the potter's desire? Probably not.

Re: Another AI company wrote us and here’s our response

#154

Post by ChrisMarshallNY »

JohnFen wrote: post #149
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the post (for what it's worth). I suspect that we are probably considered "anachronisms," in today's culture. I am retired. I didn't want to be retired, but I was told that I'm too old (I was 55, when I retired in 2017) to be playing at programmer; that it's a young man's game, and I should just go and carve decoy ducks in my garage or something. Fortunately, I had enough set aside, that I was able to ju…

> I was told that I'm too old (I was 55, when I retired in 2017) to be playing at programmer; Maybe you were ready to retire anyway so this doesn't matter -- but you shouldn't believe what you were told on this matter. There are tons of software engineering positions where being on the older end of things isn't considered a handicap. I'm pushing 60 and find there is plenty of opportunity. About half of the engineers…

Part of it is my chosen specialty: Swift native Apple programming.

Some folks actually seem to be offended that "olds" are doing it (I've been writing Swift since the day it was announced, and have released over 20 apps with it -all on my own time. My paid gig never wanted that stuff).

I ran a C++ shop, with really experienced engineers. They were all able to get jobs, after our department was dissolved, but it took them years, and at least one of them keeps getting laid off, every two years or so.

I used to say "My dream is to be coding for free."

Livin' the dream, baby!

[EDITED TO ADD] I think that I was ready to retire, but had no idea, until I was pushed out of the nest. I was REALLY pissed off, for a while, at the way that I was treated, but, in the aggregate, it has been the best thing that ever happened to me.

Re: Another AI company wrote us and here’s our response

#155

Post by hpen »

rickydroll wrote: post #132
hpen wrote: post #77

The problem isn't that people are luddites and hate technology, it's that it has been built on the backs of peoples artistic work, and they haven't been asked or compensated for it.

The artists complaining about this have built their careers and revenue streams on the backs of thousands of years of artistic creation. Where's the compensation for those earlier artists? Did you get their permission to use their content to train yourself? In almost every creative field, you learn by example. You watch what the Masters have done before you. You know their techniques, tools, and ways of expressing th…

Such bullshit. We have copyright protections to keep people compensated for their artistic work. Tech has changed, the copyright law didn't have foresight to protect against this. But that is definitely the intention of such law.

Re: Another AI company wrote us and here’s our response

#156

Post by ToucanLoucan »

throwawaysleep wrote: post #124
ToucanLoucan wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, this viewpoint is the only reason a shirt doesn't cost a month's wages. But that shirt would last you decades with good maintenance, because it was a quality product that was made to be repaired by other craftspeople throughout it's service life (or even just yourself!). Now we have can have hundreds of shirts for that same money but all of them suck, are made cheaply, fall apart after a couple of years if we'r…

You mention many enormous improvements: > with good maintenance So modernity has eliminated my need to spend time looking after clothes? That is a big win. Not having to put time into repair and maintenance is a huge improvement. It has eliminated my need to be careful with my clothes? That is also a huge win. My grandmother used to spend hours at a time repairing socks. It is a huge win that nobody knows how to do t…

> So the main loser is the environment. As a customer, I am otherwise a tremendous winner. And when AI takes over most mundane art, like animating instructional videos or making logos, I will also be a tremendous winner.

So as long as whatever shit that's burning the world benefits you in your life time, irrespective of the state of it when it's time for you to hand it over to your children, you're good with it.

Got it. I mean that makes sense, who needs a long-term stable biosphere when there's money to be made. Jesus Christ...

Re: Another AI company wrote us and here’s our response

#157

Post by JohnFen »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #154
JohnFen wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I was told that I'm too old (I was 55, when I retired in 2017) to be playing at programmer; Maybe you were ready to retire anyway so this doesn't matter -- but you shouldn't believe what you were told on this matter. There are tons of software engineering positions where being on the older end of things isn't considered a handicap. I'm pushing 60 and find there is plenty of opportunity. About half of the engineers…

Part of it is my chosen specialty: Swift native Apple programming. Some folks actually seem to be offended that "olds" are doing it (I've been writing Swift since the day it was announced, and have released over 20 apps with it -all on my own time. My paid gig never wanted that stuff). I ran a C++ shop, with really experienced engineers. They were all able to get jobs, after our department was dissolved, but it took…

> Part of it is my chosen specialty: Swift native Apple programming.

Ahh, that makes sense. There are subcultures within the industry that are very bigoted about age. Fortunately, they aren't representative of the entire spectrum of the industry.

> Livin' the dream, baby!

Excellent! That's what we're all striving for, I think (although we all have different dreams). Keep it up!

Re: Another AI company wrote us and here’s our response

#158

Post by dylan604 »

mbg721 wrote: post #110
esafak wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The mantra is "I want AI to do my laundry and dishes so that I can do art and writing, not for AI to do my art and writing so that I can do my laundry and dishes". - Joanna Maciejewska ( https://x.com/AuthorJMac/status/1773679197631701238 )

Laundry and dishes don't pay well. Art does, but only once in a great while, and AI gives you a ton of attempts for little cost. Since rapid iteration is the biggest strength of advanced computing, people just invented cultural pollution machines in the hope of striking it rich.

> Laundry and dishes don't pay well. Art does

Art can. Sometimes it's after you're dead though. There's a reason the term "starving artist" exists

Re: Another AI company wrote us and here’s our response

#159

Post by mbg721 »

dylan604 wrote: post #158
mbg721 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laundry and dishes don't pay well. Art does, but only once in a great while, and AI gives you a ton of attempts for little cost. Since rapid iteration is the biggest strength of advanced computing, people just invented cultural pollution machines in the hope of striking it rich.

> Laundry and dishes don't pay well. Art does Art can. Sometimes it's after you're dead though. There's a reason the term "starving artist" exists

Sure, but the AI fails as much as it needs to, and nobody starves. It can have awful output forever. That's the polluting machine.

Re: Another AI company wrote us and here’s our response

#160

Post by throwaway55533 »

relaxing wrote: post #145
throwaway55533 wrote: post #105

> Social Media platforms cannot grow without engaging and original content, made by people. This is the basis for any user to join. Creators have – in large part – not been privy to the rewards that these platforms have generated over the years even though they are the reason for platform growth. Disagree. People use social media for plenty of other reasons than to consume artists' content. Sharing news with family a…

Since you apparently weren’t around for the rise of social media (ca. 2000-2020 C.E.), let me fill you in: user posts are content, too.

Ok, but the author referred specifically to "Creators", which usually means the minority of users who post things other than text.

If you read more of the author's post:

> We are a webcomic duo that has been creating original comics since 2011 and sharing them on various platforms on the web

> Any business model that does not acknowledge this and does not seek proper compensation for artists is not of interest to us.

My point is, while I agree with their sentiment, I believe they are mistaken that artists are the core driver of social media growth. (And by their assertion, the reason people use social media.)

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