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Surprising gender biases in GPT

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Re: Surprising gender biases in GPT

#21

Post by [deleted] »

ben_w wrote: post #17
tossandthrow wrote: post #5

> This phenomenon likely reflects that while initiatives to integrate women in traditionally masculine roles have gained momentum, the reverse movement remains relatively under developed. Not really surprising IMHO. Yes, there has been a huge focus on accepting women in the workplace and no, there has not really been a push accepting men as primary caregivers in the family. This likely uncovers underlying motives for…

I don't get the impression that's the underlying motivation of feminism. Also, I see a degree of annoyance from women regarding how little men are able to take part in caregiving, as the current status quo is an expectation for women to simultaneously perform that role while also having a career — if I imagine myself in their shoes, the idea of going from one unpaid full-time role to two full time roles where only on…

[deleted]

Re: Surprising gender biases in GPT

#24

Post by rvnx »

tiborsaas wrote: post #9
Reventlov wrote: post #2

What is this paper ? The tested sentences are full of errors…

What, you don't like fotbal?

Seems like how a user who learned English on Twitter would speak:

football -> fotbal

cousin -> cosin

teacher -> teachr

You can’t fit everything in 160 chars.

Re: Surprising gender biases in GPT

#25

Post by spacebanana7 »

ben_w wrote: post #17
tossandthrow wrote: post #5

> This phenomenon likely reflects that while initiatives to integrate women in traditionally masculine roles have gained momentum, the reverse movement remains relatively under developed. Not really surprising IMHO. Yes, there has been a huge focus on accepting women in the workplace and no, there has not really been a push accepting men as primary caregivers in the family. This likely uncovers underlying motives for…

I don't get the impression that's the underlying motivation of feminism. Also, I see a degree of annoyance from women regarding how little men are able to take part in caregiving, as the current status quo is an expectation for women to simultaneously perform that role while also having a career — if I imagine myself in their shoes, the idea of going from one unpaid full-time role to two full time roles where only on…

Political movements are made up of many constituencies, often with different motivations. Some constituencies within feminism are very enthusiastic about the economy-growing aspects of it.

The treasury loves that working women increase the tax yield of a population and corporates love bigger customer bases. Universities like having a greater demand for education.

None of these constituencies really have an interest in men taking up caregiving activities.

Re: Surprising gender biases in GPT

#26

Post by t-writescode »

drexlspivey wrote: post #12
voidUpdate wrote: post #3

I feel like this is just what happens when you average out a large amount of the internet and train a system to pick the next word, and is not an issue inherent to LLMs. If you trained one exclusively on horrible, sexist data, you'd get a system that chooses horrible sexist words. If it was perfectly equal, it would pick gender norms essentially at random. Seeing as reddit was a source for a sizable proportion of GPT…

Make no mistake, these biases have been explicitly put there in the RLHF stage (see the Gemini fiasco). They don’t come from the training data.

There is a very good chance ( I imagine ) that these biases are put in place explicitly because unrestrained internet scraping and paper reading produces *wildly* sexist and awful material. See: what happened to Microsoft's old chatbot when let loose on Twitter.

Re: Surprising gender biases in GPT

#28

Post by Applejinx »

Looks to me like GPT is able to account for the predictable effects of testosterone in gender-based decision making.

I would be absolutely shocked if GPT came out with some kind of gender-based analysis that males and females are the same and moral choices around them make no consideration of their gender nature. GPT is based on a body of content sourced from reality. I'm not the least bit surprised that it took testosterone into account.

Re: Surprising gender biases in GPT

#29

Post by rvnx »

gostsamo wrote: post #22
tiborsaas wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, you don't like fotbal?

Often, those are ligatures that with another fond seem like a typo. Too lazy to proofread here, but keep it in mind as a possibility.

In reality probably authors of the papers understood that the OpenAI team artificially readjusted these biases through RLHF and that there is nothing to find there, except that it still works when the words are written with typos because no manual examples of “redressing biases” have been provided with such typos.

Re: Surprising gender biases in GPT

#30

Post by rhdunn »

gostsamo wrote: post #22
tiborsaas wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, you don't like fotbal?

Often, those are ligatures that with another fond seem like a typo. Too lazy to proofread here, but keep it in mind as a possibility.

It could also be from an ESL user -- fotbal is the Czech, Romanian, and Slovakian word for football, borrowed from the English.
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