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Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

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Re: Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

#141

Post by matheusmoreira »

GolfPopper wrote: post #79
helloworld42024 wrote: post #2

At this point, we need a service that "offers" an 8-bay (with 12TB? 14TB? drives) full with the whole ~80TB Anna's Archive. It's essentially all of human knowledge and to be frank it belongs to no one - rather...everyone. People can store this at their house, keep it offline. Just to have these seeds of knowledge everywhere. ...I suppose LLM's trained on this data, essentially their model weights and tokenization are…

When it comes to the evils (and goods) of copyright, it is hard to go wrong with Thomas Babington Macaulay's address to the House of Commons in 1841[1]: "At present the holder of copyright has the public feeling on his side. Those who invade copyright are regarded as knaves who take the bread out of the mouths of deserving men. Everybody is well pleased to see them restrained by the law, and compelled to refund their…

That is a powerful address, indeed. Good thing to know even in 1841 people saw what copyright would become today: an intolerable monopoly granted by the government, functionally infinite.

Seriously, this text is so great. I read the entire thing. It's nearly two hundred years old and contains everything one needs to know about copyright in 2024. Thank you for posting it.

Re: Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

#142

Post by laserlight »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #131
laserlight wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why did you choose gold as an example? How about a sword? Claiming that physical and intellectual property are the same is reductionistic at best. The fact that both properties are protected by power doesn't mean that they are the same. Physical property is not copyable. Intellectual property is.

Im not saying they are the same, and stated as much above. I am saying their relation to the government is the same. Government maintains both, and creates a market for them by doing so. No government> no private property> no goods for sale. I dont see how copyable is relevant at all.

> Im not saying they are the same, and stated as much above.

> I am saying their relation to the government is the same.

Then I don't have anything to object. But I suspect that the above points were clear in your comments. I don't think anybody here would object to the idea that physical property law and IP law have the same legal standing. What people object to are the principles of the IP law.

EDIT: Following up with more analysis of the parent's comments... Indeed the following was clearly stated [0]:

> Of course I agree that there are some differences, but they are the same with respect to the sated role of government.

The following example to clarify the above statement muddies the water, though:

> Physical theft deprives the owner of physical property (where this right is respected by law. IP theft deprives the owner of intellectual property ( where this right is respected by law).

Physical property theft deprives the owner absolutely. Whether IP “theft” deprives owner of anything is questionable, even in the legal sense. Regardless, government is “right” to pursue enforcing both laws, because they are laws after all.

[0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=40911265

Re: Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

#143

Post by laserlight »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #130
laserlight wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What if people want to grow food, does that then justify stealing it? Maybe it does justify, if stealing doesn't mean depriving the owner of the food. > IF someone wants to create IP for free, grow food for free, or build cars for free- They CAN! I want to create IP for free, but I don't have a surplus of time to create it. IP holders deprive me of the surplus, because it's going to reduce the value of their “prope…

>Maybe it does justify, if stealing doesn't mean depriving the owner of the food. They have less food than before you took it, how is that not depriving them? Who authors a book so that they can read it themselves? Is that a reasonable model of the world? >I want to create IP for free, but I don't have a surplus of time to create it. IP holders deprive me of the surplus, because it's going to reduce the value of thei…

> They have less food than before you took it, how is that not depriving them?

That's my point. You keep conflating copyright infringement and stealing. Conceptually and legally, they are different.

> How are they taking your surplus time? Nobody is forcing you to buy IP?

In order to earn a living, I have to give away my rights to the IP that I produce. I don't have any time left to produce IP that I could give away freely. My point is that it's not as simple as claiming that people can produce IP for free, given the status quo. IP law makes it more difficult for people to give away IP for free.

Re: Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

#145

Post by data_maan »

sitkack wrote: post #83
catlikesshrimp wrote: post #8

Mixed feelings about the case. Sharing is the best thing that can happen to knowledge. It is great that gatekeepers lose money over this. However, the blame of the loss might burden oclc, which might have been doing a positive job. https://www.oclc.org/en/about.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OCLC > In November 2008, the Board of Directors of OCLC unilaterally issued a new Policy for Use and Transfer of WorldCat Records[66] that would have required member libraries to include an OCLC policy note on their bibliographic records; the policy caused an uproar among librarian bloggers.[67][68] Among those who protested the policy was the non-librarian activist Aaron Swartz, who bel…

I think we found out villain here: Mr. Prichard.

Anyone care to drop him an email to ask why he is messing up humanity's knowledge for profit and greed?

Re: Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

#146

Post by r0ks0n »

autoexec wrote: post #54
dtx1 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's made by a former piratebay founder. When you buy a domain from them, they act as a middleman and keep legal ownership of the domain thus shielding your PI somewhat from legal enforcement. They claim their hosting is "In secret locations in Sweden". Their LLC is located in Nevis (some tax evasion island). There's also https://1984.hosting/ which runs a similar operation out of iceland.

Considering I haven't managed to run into malware or phishing sites on either of those providers they seem to be doing something right. Why are these so-called "evil" hosting companies less of a problem for me than namecheap, godaddy, and google?

maybe you haven't but they exist

Re: Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

#147

Post by llamaimperative »

lolinder wrote: post #77
2OEH8eoCRo0 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The conspiracy/speculation on every damn topic around here is getting out of hand.

There's been a very noticeable decline in average comment quality since Reddit started pulling its API nonsense. It was worse right after it happened, and it's clear that the mods are working hard to keep it under control, but the Reddit exodus definitely has had an impact here.

I think this is a far deeper issue in our society given that you see unhinged conspiracy shit absolutely everywhere on the internet now. It’s just continued outgrowths of QAnon, slowly pulling in more and more people who think they’re too smart to get dragged into something like that.

Re: Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

#148

Post by joquarky »

userbinator wrote: post #99
NuSkooler wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been trying to convince people of this for years. The problem is from my view, that people have the idea of IP being some sort of the American Dream ingrained in their heads that they can't even reason about anything else.

The problem is from my view, that people have the idea of IP being some sort of the American Dream ingrained in their heads that they can't even reason about anything else. Maybe it depends on which people you ask, but I don't think the American Dream is about IP at all --- but mostly freedom and independence.

Freedom and independence are propaganda in the same way that high school football coaches tell their players they can get into the NFL if they work hard enough

Re: Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

#149

Post by squigz »

sircastor wrote: post #113
userbinator wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is from my view, that people have the idea of IP being some sort of the American Dream ingrained in their heads that they can't even reason about anything else. Maybe it depends on which people you ask, but I don't think the American Dream is about IP at all --- but mostly freedom and independence.

Deeply entrenched in that freedom is the fantasy of inventing some new miracle product, or supremely popular song or book. It’s protecting the idea that someday I might be the wealthy benefactor of these practices and rules. We see people vote against their interests all the time because of “The American Dream”, and the hope that they might achieve it.

At the heart of the American Dream (and indeed of most Western culture) is the meritocracy - or more specifically the lie of it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_of_meritocracy

Re: Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

#150

Post by loa_in_ »

odo1242 wrote: post #34
ASalazarMX wrote: post #12

They're just piling on anything they can regardless of reason. A real damage count would be lost sales due to web scraping, but they don't sell anything. > For example, the organization spent $1,548,693 on upgrades for its hardware infrastructure, and an additional $608,069 for a two-year Cloudflare contract [..] Other costs include the salaries of 34 full-time employees, who were tasked with mitigating the harm caus…

The original "damages" in a lawsuit are almost always made up. They're supposed to get adjusted downward during and after the lawsuit. This is also why having a default judgement delivered against you for failing to show up generally isn't great.

They're going to be adjusted down to zero
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