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Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

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Re: Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

#121

Post by computerfriend »

kragen wrote: post #106
chongli wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

fabs like tsmc would hire design firms like nvidia to produce designs to fabricate; the division of labor would be the same as at present, but banks and investors would send their money to tsmc to pay to nvidia, rather than to nvidia to pay to tsmc There’s a bit of a snag with this. Chip designs are rarely ever done from scratch. Instead they’re iterated over many years, similar to how browsers, operating systems, ot…

in the case you mention, the geopolitical considerations run strongly counter to what you suggest chinese policymakers can loosen domestic restrictions on innovation such as copyright and patent laws; then the laws in the us will only restrict us companies like nvidia. in large part this has happened, which is a major reason chinese companies (in both prc and roc) have become the leading organizations in a wide varie…

In sentences like "The last thing the US wants to see is for China to close the technology gap on this stuff", China is referring to the PRC. In sentences like "you may not be aware of this, but tsmc is a chinese company", China is referring to Taiwan. It is disingenuous to conflate these.

Re: Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

#122

Post by computerfriend »

freehorse wrote: post #98
chongli wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IP-intensive industries contribute 41% of the US GDP and employ 44% of the US workforce [1]. If you abolished IP all of that would go away. How would you replace that? I'm not a fan of IP either but I think it's pretty hard to escape that reality. Big companies like NVIDIA (3T market cap) are almost 100% IP. IP is more-or-less central to the US's economic and security strategy. Without it, the country loses a huge am…

> IP is more-or-less central to the US's economic and security strategy. Without it, the country loses a huge amount of power and influence in the world. Good?

One loss is another's gain.

Re: Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

#123

Post by gmerc »

freehorse wrote: post #65

This is the most ridiculous lawsuit ever. How is scrapping publicly available data "hacking"? How is less than 2TB of total bandwidth amount to millions of dollars of damage? Something is off here. Maybe there is some other motivation behind this, like drawing some legal representative of Anna's archive out? It makes no sense otherwise. Considering that high ranking officers of OCLC (taking a look over their executiv…

It’s great. Maybe we can turn it against OpenAI as established precedent if it happens

Re: Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

#124

Post by justinclift »

xiiiixi wrote: post #66
tehwebguy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article says nobody is responding as defendant except one individual who has filed a motion to dismiss based on being misidentified. I don’t know the status of that motion though.

[flagged]

> Stylometric analysis shows this to be the same person with a high degree of probability.

Sounds like this is a new technique unproven to the high standards really needed for legal evidence.

The "anything plausible sounding goes" approach is already a problem for other widely used types of "evidence".

Those need to be stamped out too, not have new unproven crap added, making the problem worse.

Re: Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

#125

Post by laserlight »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #111
kragen wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as hug correctly points out, you have accidentally made a circular argument; without the regulatory regime, the thing that 'ip theft' deprives the owner of doesn't exist in the first place so the role of government is quite different in the two cases: it creates 'intellectual property', in the sense of 'what the owner is deprived of by so-called ip theft', while physical property exists in its own right if we instead…

Physical property rights, which I strongly support, are not a law of nature. lions and tigers dont have property rights. They are a concept, but one is no more natural than another. matter exists, knowledge exists. exclusive monopoly to one or the other is no different. RE Cars: I think the analogy is apt, but you you ignore the time an effort that goes into creating one. Who would build or buy a car if someone could…

> What if people want to grow food, does that then justify stealing it?

Maybe it does justify, if stealing doesn't mean depriving the owner of the food.

> IF someone wants to create IP for free, grow food for free, or build cars for free- They CAN!

I want to create IP for free, but I don't have a surplus of time to create it. IP holders deprive me of the surplus, because it's going to reduce the value of their “property” if I create IP for free.

Re: Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

#126

Post by justinclift »

xiiiixi wrote: post #66
tehwebguy wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Article says nobody is responding as defendant except one individual who has filed a motion to dismiss based on being misidentified. I don’t know the status of that motion though.

[flagged]

> An acquaintance of mine worked on this analysis for the plaintiffs.

On that note, does your acquaintance have published work that can be fact checked?

It sounds like they're an expert, so surely they must have public info about this technique, and its accuracy when they're utilising it.

Re: Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

#127

Post by vundercind »

langsoul-com wrote: post #105

Why does cloudflare cost $600k for 2 years? What exactly are they paying for? Surely

High-transfer users can easily pay tens of thousands a month to a CDN. And not even that high an amount of transfer, even. Not like Steam or someone like that.

Cloudflare also offers other services and likes to bundle them with their enterprise accounts. They don’t really compete on transfer costs vs other decent CDNs. They prefer you’re using lots of their stuff than just watching the meter every month. They may have been using other services, too.

Re: Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

#128

Post by skeledrew »

s1artibartfast wrote: post #109
hug wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike physical property, "intellectual property" doesn't exist by itself. The thing that exists, the product that it is that you ostensibly "own" that is protected by the government is the copyright, a soft of reified extension of ownership, which only has any value inasmuch as the government protects it. In other words, intellectual property is only worth what the government says it is. It doesn't just hold the gun…

I don't think it is any different for physical property. What is a pound of gold worth when you are defenseless and someone else has armed men willing to kill you. Might makes right and owns all property is the default. Every situation that deviates from this is imposed by governments. A market around physical goods is no different.

There is no deviation. It is still the might of governments (through police/military) imposed on all with less might, in service of those keeping them in power.

Re: Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

#129

Post by marshray »

kragen wrote: post #97
chongli wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a company like NVIDIA operate without IP law? They are fabless. Everything they produce is digital, either in the form of software or in the form of chip designs. As far as I can tell, without protection from IP law (patents, copyrights, trade secrets) NVIDIA could not function as a company. They would have no means whatsoever at preventing a fab like TSMC from manufacturing clones of their devices and selli…

it's an interesting question, and hopefully after a few decades of repealing intellectual property laws, we can find out. 40 years ago it wasn't obvious that anything like nvidia could exist in the first place. possibilities include: - no company like nvidia could exist, and for chip design and fabrication we'd be stuck with companies like intel, digital, micron, samsung, and texas instruments; but many other kinds o…

I assure you that 40 years ago chip companies were suing each other over IP just like today, if not worse.

> using electron beams rather than multibillion-dollar euv fabs

If this were possible it would be happening now.

Re: Anna's Archive Faces Millions in Damages and a Permanent Injunction

#130

Post by s1artibartfast »

laserlight wrote: post #125
s1artibartfast wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Physical property rights, which I strongly support, are not a law of nature. lions and tigers dont have property rights. They are a concept, but one is no more natural than another. matter exists, knowledge exists. exclusive monopoly to one or the other is no different. RE Cars: I think the analogy is apt, but you you ignore the time an effort that goes into creating one. Who would build or buy a car if someone could…

> What if people want to grow food, does that then justify stealing it? Maybe it does justify, if stealing doesn't mean depriving the owner of the food. > IF someone wants to create IP for free, grow food for free, or build cars for free- They CAN! I want to create IP for free, but I don't have a surplus of time to create it. IP holders deprive me of the surplus, because it's going to reduce the value of their “prope…

>Maybe it does justify, if stealing doesn't mean depriving the owner of the food.

They have less food than before you took it, how is that not depriving them?

Who authors a book so that they can read it themselves? Is that a reasonable model of the world?

>I want to create IP for free, but I don't have a surplus of time to create it. IP holders deprive me of the surplus, because it's going to reduce the value of their “property” if I create IP for free.

How are they taking your surplus time? Nobody is forcing you to buy IP?

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