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Dear Roku, you ruined my TV

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Re: Dear Roku, you ruined my TV

#91

Post by MarkLowenstein »

karmakaze wrote: post #4

I don't know what this looks like but I probably hate it. It's like the frame interpolation that some TVs had to generate 120p frames from 60p. I actually prefer the original 24p (or 24p double-exposed to 48 like cinema projectors do) for films. What really bugs me are the "Remastered" versions of songs on Spotify that sound like they were produced with today's audience in mind and doesn't sound like the original rec…

It makes things in the foreground have very sharp edges and seem brighter than the things in the background. They call it "soap opera effect" because it reminds you of the way those sets and people are lit.

But also--never seemingly noticed--the technology leads to very crisp changes in direction of the camera panning. So you see a very smooth pan, stopping with no deceleration period, and then a quick new pan in a different direction, with no acceleration. It's disorienting and makes everything look fake. IMO this is the most annoying part, but it's hard to identify and articulate.

Re: Dear Roku, you ruined my TV

#92

Post by adamomada »

kstrauser wrote: post #87
adamomada wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They made the feature, they’re gonna enable it or nobody would use it and it would have been a waste of time making You’re really gonna hate the fact that 99% of people think this is what stuff on their digital television is supposed to look like. (Which is exactly why Roku did it)

That's just not true. My non-Roku TV has this as an option alongside dozens of others I can turn on and off. I'm gonna need to see some data on that. The nearly universally description I hear from regular, non-techie people is "my TV started looking weird", especially when they're watching content they're familiar with. If a brand new movie or show looked like this and that's the only way I'd ever seen it, fine, so b…

> I'm gonna need to see some data on that.

It’s enabled by default on all smart TVs. Q.E.D.

Re: Dear Roku, you ruined my TV

#93

Post by ghewgill »

cm2012 wrote: post #55
jes5199 wrote: post #52

I'm in a subculture where people mostly don't own televisions (I do watch shows on my laptop, occasionally) but so I have never seen motion smoothing - is there a demo, online, like on youtube or something, that can give me a sense of what you are talking about?

It looks like a 90s/2000s soap opera, like Days of our Lives. I always turn it off on TVs I use.

I still don't understand what that means. I've never sat down to watch a soap opera, so I have no idea what they look like.

Re: Dear Roku, you ruined my TV

#94

Post by lherron »

longtimelistnr wrote: post #35
hedora wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got an Apple TV 4K a while back to replace my Roku. It sets my ancient sony 1080p TV to 24 fps when playing back 24 fps content. On top of that, it let me recalibrate the colors using my iPhone camera. Anyway, I bought it to reduce ad tracking, and was pleasantly surprised that it was roughly equivalent to buying a new TV.

Yes that is my favorite part of the apple tv as well, that it adjusts output to the source frames and resolution. As long as you have a good looking panel with nice color you'll never need to get rid of it. 1080 can really look gorgeous even with everything today being 4k

My 2013 Panasonic plasma is still going strong with AppleTV as the primary input source.

Re: Dear Roku, you ruined my TV

#95

Post by K7PJP »

karmakaze wrote: post #4

I don't know what this looks like but I probably hate it. It's like the frame interpolation that some TVs had to generate 120p frames from 60p. I actually prefer the original 24p (or 24p double-exposed to 48 like cinema projectors do) for films. What really bugs me are the "Remastered" versions of songs on Spotify that sound like they were produced with today's audience in mind and doesn't sound like the original rec…

> What really bugs me are the "Remastered" versions of songs on Spotify that sound like … [a] soulless robo-producer repaint job.

Spotify serves up a stereo version of The Flamingos' "I Only Have Eyes for You" that completely destroys the atmosphere of the song. It's nearly criminal.

Re: Dear Roku, you ruined my TV

#96

Post by hagbard_c »

Waterluvian wrote: post #49

I hated my stupid TCL Roku TV so I got a TCL Android TV and it’s worse. The terrible incompetence of the team who manages to make a UI that lags out by multiple seconds when trying to cursor to the OFF option is frustrating. But I’m sure it makes their Project Manager overlords happy because it’s easy to supply ads to. If anyone here wants to solve a real problem and get rich doing so: start a company that makes dumb…

> start a company that makes dumb electronics. I’ll pay a premium.

That'd just make you a useful idiot for those sellers. Better use the thing in whatever 'dumb' mode it offers, never connect it to the internet but only expose it to a restricted local network. That way you don't have problems with auto-updates, you don´t get ads, you're not being spied upon, etc. Of course all bets are off if there is an open wifi network around for the thing to connect to but those tend to be rare. There are bakers tales about devices having their own cellular access built-in but I have yet to see proof of something like that - and will abuse the hell out of it when I find it.

Re: Dear Roku, you ruined my TV

#97

Post by ribosometronome »

paulcole wrote: post #71
einarfd wrote: post #45

If you live in the right jurisdiction consumer protection laws might be able to force the seller to get this defect fixed or have them take back and refund the tv. Where I live (Norway), there is a five year warranty on long lived products, which a tv is, and if it breaks during that period, the seller needs to fix or replace the product. Motion smoothing that can't be turned off seems a serious breakage, and if they…

> Motion smoothing that can't be turned off seems a serious breakage, and if they seller pushes back, you can point out that Tom Cruise and a bunch of other movie luminaries think motion smoothing ruins movies. Is this the standard in Norway, where the consumer can just call something they personally dislike "serious breakage" and demand their money back? Does this work? Would you actually invoke your Tom Cruise argu…

Fundamentally altering the way the picture is shown without anyway to revert to the original functionality is obviously a severe deviation from how the product was originally sold. It's akin to not having blue anymore.

Re: Dear Roku, you ruined my TV

#98

Post by jes5199 »

callerun wrote: post #59
jes5199 wrote: post #52

I'm in a subculture where people mostly don't own televisions (I do watch shows on my laptop, occasionally) but so I have never seen motion smoothing - is there a demo, online, like on youtube or something, that can give me a sense of what you are talking about?

Which subculture is this? I also do not own a tv. But I’m not part of any subculture that I know of.

for lack of a better way to describe it, people who were active on everything.blockstackers.com in the late 1990s

Re: Dear Roku, you ruined my TV

#99

Post by Waterluvian »

hagbard_c wrote: post #96
Waterluvian wrote: post #49

I hated my stupid TCL Roku TV so I got a TCL Android TV and it’s worse. The terrible incompetence of the team who manages to make a UI that lags out by multiple seconds when trying to cursor to the OFF option is frustrating. But I’m sure it makes their Project Manager overlords happy because it’s easy to supply ads to. If anyone here wants to solve a real problem and get rich doing so: start a company that makes dumb…

> start a company that makes dumb electronics. I’ll pay a premium. That'd just make you a useful idiot for those sellers. Better use the thing in whatever 'dumb' mode it offers, never connect it to the internet but only expose it to a restricted local network. That way you don't have problems with auto-updates, you don´t get ads, you're not being spied upon, etc. Of course all bets are off if there is an open wifi ne…

I’ve never connected them. They’re still terrible. Because they’re designed as Android devices and not just fricking TVs.

Re: Dear Roku, you ruined my TV

#100

Post by jes5199 »

cm2012 wrote: post #55
jes5199 wrote: post #52

I'm in a subculture where people mostly don't own televisions (I do watch shows on my laptop, occasionally) but so I have never seen motion smoothing - is there a demo, online, like on youtube or something, that can give me a sense of what you are talking about?

It looks like a 90s/2000s soap opera, like Days of our Lives. I always turn it off on TVs I use.

I've heard that before and it just sounds so strange - why would interpolated frames on a HDTV remind people of the production values from standard definition televisions?
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