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Do Skis Get Blunt?

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Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#141

Post by SkyPuncher »

oldandboring wrote: post #93

Former junior and Masters racer here. Glad to see there's some very qualified voices in these comments, including a few who are currently involved (as racing parents). I very much appreciate the level of technical detail and accuracy in those comments. I'll talk base bevels all day. Pretty much agree with everything those folks have written. Most definitely sharp edges, and your bevels, matter when you are really pus…

One thing the conversation seems to be missing is rocks and handling.

Rocks are mostly an off-piste issue, but I have seen it happen on piste. Especially early and last season when cover can be low. Will occasionally also happen near the lift when a spot gets warn low. When I get rock gashes, it's always easier to just send them to the shop's machine.

Handling also introduces a fair amount of nicks. In theory, the edges should never meet at an awkward angle, but it happens. Skis slide around on the rack, skis flip out a position while carrying them, things shift in the car, etc, etc.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#142

Post by oldandboring »

swader999 wrote: post #140
oldandboring wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True enough at younger levels but as you move up in age and skill, the weight distribution between the downhill and uphill ski gets closer to 50/50. What you're saying has a kernel of truth and young skiers are still taught downhill ski as a fundamental but shaped skis have really changed the game on this.

No, you never weight each ski evenly. Former WC mogul skier here and even in moguls there's a slight difference in weight on each ski in a turn. Shaped hour glass skis make it easy to turn but you still need more weight on the outside downhill ski.

That's why I said "closer to 50/50".

Also, that's awesome that you competed WC moguls. I probably saw you compete depending on when you were active, and we almost definitely know some of the same people.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#143

Post by oldandboring »

SkyPuncher wrote: post #141
oldandboring wrote: post #93

Former junior and Masters racer here. Glad to see there's some very qualified voices in these comments, including a few who are currently involved (as racing parents). I very much appreciate the level of technical detail and accuracy in those comments. I'll talk base bevels all day. Pretty much agree with everything those folks have written. Most definitely sharp edges, and your bevels, matter when you are really pus…

One thing the conversation seems to be missing is rocks and handling. Rocks are mostly an off-piste issue, but I have seen it happen on piste. Especially early and last season when cover can be low. Will occasionally also happen near the lift when a spot gets warn low. When I get rock gashes, it's always easier to just send them to the shop's machine. Handling also introduces a fair amount of nicks. In theory, the ed…

I addressed this when I wrote,

> If the edge get damaged with rocks or rust, this is no longer true.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#144

Post by Zigurd »

Sports and folk knowledge have long been companions. I just saw an article about some teams running 25mm tires on the new gravel stage at the Tour de France because "25mm is fast." It doesn't help that elite athletes can be very opinionated about what is best for their performance, and they are so talented, fit, and well-trained they can perform well on deficient equipment.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#145

Post by swader999 »

oldandboring wrote: post #142
swader999 wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, you never weight each ski evenly. Former WC mogul skier here and even in moguls there's a slight difference in weight on each ski in a turn. Shaped hour glass skis make it easy to turn but you still need more weight on the outside downhill ski.

That's why I said "closer to 50/50". Also, that's awesome that you competed WC moguls. I probably saw you compete depending on when you were active, and we almost definitely know some of the same people.

Awesome! I might be even older and boring though. 92 was my last cup year.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#146

Post by skiexperte »

Its a shitty article.

Just looking at your skies and seeing an 'issue' doesn't tell you anything besides the fact that yes something had fun with that edge.

Questions which are completly unanswered: How long does a sharp edge actually stay as it is? If it looks like this after 5 minutes, it doesn't matter.

It also doesn't say if it was snow, ice or stones/ground killing that edge.

And as far as i remember, he didn't say anything regarding the waxing.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#147

Post by pmart123 »

oldandboring wrote: post #93

Former junior and Masters racer here. Glad to see there's some very qualified voices in these comments, including a few who are currently involved (as racing parents). I very much appreciate the level of technical detail and accuracy in those comments. I'll talk base bevels all day. Pretty much agree with everything those folks have written. Most definitely sharp edges, and your bevels, matter when you are really pus…

I'm no expert in this, but I think one common misconception among regular skiers is that a ski tune is "free" rather than each ski only gets so many full tunes as it wears down the base and edges. Obviously, if you get a core shot or something like that, it becomes more necessary. I always understood waxing skis as more protective though?

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#148

Post by trompetenaccoun »

huskdigselv wrote: post #133
troupo wrote: post #2

Yes, the edge does get blunt. And you can notice it in close up photos. However, does it get blunt enough to affect performance? After all, it's not like a knife trying to cut through a piece of meat

I have been an Austrian trained ski instructor since 2012 and I can tell you that a sharp ski is essential if you want to have carve in any conditions below where the snow isn't slushing or soft. I.e. any run that is either early day, windblown, mid-season (generally colder) or shadow side. HOWEVER 99% of the skiers on a mountain (and yes I mean 99%) do not actually ski on their edges, they do skidded turns ( https:/…

>and yes I mean 99%

In which country? I thought carving was relatively popular with locals in the Alps (Switzerland, Austria, etc). At least it looks like that's what they're doing to me, but maybe they still do it wrong.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#149

Post by emgeee »

pmart123 wrote: post #147
oldandboring wrote: post #93

Former junior and Masters racer here. Glad to see there's some very qualified voices in these comments, including a few who are currently involved (as racing parents). I very much appreciate the level of technical detail and accuracy in those comments. I'll talk base bevels all day. Pretty much agree with everything those folks have written. Most definitely sharp edges, and your bevels, matter when you are really pus…

I'm no expert in this, but I think one common misconception among regular skiers is that a ski tune is "free" rather than each ski only gets so many full tunes as it wears down the base and edges. Obviously, if you get a core shot or something like that, it becomes more necessary. I always understood waxing skis as more protective though?

Could definitely be wrong but I always thought waxing was about reducing the friction between the ski and the snow by both creating a uniform surface and because the wax has a lower coefficient of friction than the plastic of the skis.

edit: learned something new!

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#150

Post by jcgrillo »

abakker wrote: post #129
jcgrillo wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another important tuning dimension is base structure. I never realized the impact of base structure until I got a GS board that had been ground with a very aggressive base. That thing absolutely flies on wet snow.

A fellow hardbooter? I feel like the base size on snowboards benefits even more from good tuning than a lot of narrow race skis. And, obviously, you only have 1 edge instead of two, so the load on the edge is bigger. apropos of this discussion, my main board probably never gets a serious tune now that I live in the rockies. back in VT, it was critical daily maintenance due to the amount of ice you actually encountere…

Yeah current setup is Tanker 201, Upz RC11s, and F2 race bindings. I also have an F2 GS board with these awesome big rubber riser plates and F2 bindings as well but I don't ride it very often as I can carve the Tanker much tighter and slower, which as you know is important on narrow, icy east coast trails
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