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Do Skis Get Blunt?

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Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#111

Post by swader999 »

esel2k wrote: post #69
matsemann wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure how you managed to destroy a pair of skis? It's mainly just to clamp the file onto a metal piece with the correct angle and grind away. Normally I put pen marks every few cms on the edge before I begin, then all those should disappear and I know I've grinded about the same all places. Or with a tool like Swix TA3008 it's hard to do wrong. Maybe need someone to set up the base angles, but then you can use it…

How would one know the base angles I have currently?

There's tools that can measure them. A low end is just a piece of metal that fits the edge with no light coming through. You can use a true bar and look with a loop or magnifying glass.

Check out this tool: https://www.sidecut.com/product/BEBM.html?Category_Code=base...

It's ridiculous how much you can spend on tuning gear.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#112

Post by cmrdporcupine »

SailToSki wrote: post #95
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ski here in the northeast or midwest and on the ice we get? You're going to want sharp edges.

I grew up in Maine skiing at Sunday River but spent my entire childhood in the park never once cared about my edges. Had I been in the pipe, maybe a different story.

Edges are not... what you want in the park. Hence Armada and others making literally edgeless skiers for park rats.

Making your way down free ride or even groomed terrain at Tremblant or Whiteface etc after a typical northeastern rain->refreeze cycle... Nice sharp metal edges are a godsend.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#113

Post by cmrdporcupine »

ptero wrote: post #108
cmrdporcupine wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ski here in the northeast or midwest and on the ice we get? You're going to want sharp edges.

I ski mostly in the Northeast and my old, unsharpened skis work just fine for me. I don't ski double blacks now (for the knees that feel it much more than 30 years ago) but I am doing just fine on single blacks and below. Do I ever wish for a sharp edge when I occasionally end up on an icy plate scrubbed by snowboarders at the end of the day? Yes. But so rarely, that I never care enough to actually sharpen them.

I started skiing before there were ever snowboarders, and let me tell you that slopes were just as scraped out then as now. Probably worse as groomers and snowmaking weren't as competent.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#114

Post by oldandboring »

matsemann wrote: post #80
KineticLensman wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I used to ski religiously for 20 years but stopped for health reasons 10 years ago. I found the debate fascinating rather than maddening to see how the tech has continued to evolve. When I started (1986) it was still expected that you would use thin straight skis that were much taller than you were. Carving skis simply weren’t available, at least not at my beginning level

And if you sharpened your edges on straight skis, you would often intentionally blunt the front and back and only keep it sharp around the foot/middle, in order to have grip when going diagonally but have it easy to twist around turns.

Everything old is new again. Only today the effect is achieved by constructing the ski with tip & tail rocker.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#115

Post by datavirtue »

oldandboring wrote: post #93

Former junior and Masters racer here. Glad to see there's some very qualified voices in these comments, including a few who are currently involved (as racing parents). I very much appreciate the level of technical detail and accuracy in those comments. I'll talk base bevels all day. Pretty much agree with everything those folks have written. Most definitely sharp edges, and your bevels, matter when you are really pus…

Same with cycling. When I lose enough weight and get so fast that I have to change my clothes to get faster, then I will clip in if I need to win a race.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#116

Post by swader999 »

oldandboring wrote: post #96
throwaway7285 wrote: post #92

So here's a silly question from someone who's never been near a...whatever you call a place where skiing is done. Skis have sharp edges? Why?

Because while snow is soft and fluffy when it first falls, after a few temperature changes and having been groomed and skied on for hours/days, it transforms from snow crystals to ice crystals. Unless new snow falls on top, that's what you're gonna be skiing on, and you'll slide all over the place without sharp edges. Here is one of the best skiers in the world, on a race course set on a surface intentionally prepare…

Great clip. Courses are considered more fair the firmer it is. The track will stay more consistent for more of the field of racers if it is firm.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#117

Post by MisterTea »

Sharp skis are necessary for good control otherwise you're just sliding around. Snow and Ice aren't the only things you ski over as there is a ton of dirt and other debris mixed in. Sometimes you get rocks and pebbles near trail edges. Heck, spring skiing will put you on trails with thin snow cover in addition to patches of grass and dirt that will destroy your skis (fun fact: hitting grass at speed is NOT fun - instant stop.)

My father was also of the opinion that wax was a scam as he stated it would likely wear off in the first few runs. The idea was it filled in the scratches on the ski bottoms leaving a flatter surface. Maybe it works. maybe it doesn't. I always enjoyed watching the guys in the ski shops apply it by taking a slice of wax and then using a clothes iron, melt it like a pat of butter along the bottom.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#118

Post by oldandboring »

datavirtue wrote: post #115
oldandboring wrote: post #93

Former junior and Masters racer here. Glad to see there's some very qualified voices in these comments, including a few who are currently involved (as racing parents). I very much appreciate the level of technical detail and accuracy in those comments. I'll talk base bevels all day. Pretty much agree with everything those folks have written. Most definitely sharp edges, and your bevels, matter when you are really pus…

Same with cycling. When I lose enough weight and get so fast that I have to change my clothes to get faster, then I will clip in if I need to win a race.

Interesting read about the science of how body hair slows you down: https://nautil.us/winning-by-a-hair-341059/

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#119

Post by swader999 »

jcgrillo wrote: post #90
vlovich123 wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How frequently do you need to tune? I usually only tune at the beginning of each season. Does tuning also prolong the longevity of the board? This article doesn’t seem to address that.

I do edges every day (usually just a few passes with a fine stone and a light deburring with gummy stone), base wax as required by the conditions.

Yes, this kind of maintenance is quick to do and a best practice once you've setup the angles. Then you hit a rock and cry.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#120

Post by swader999 »

oldandboring wrote: post #106
swader999 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice clarification about the polishing once you have it setup. This is fairly quick to do too.

Believe it or not, as a junior I had the hardest time believing this. We'd be down in the waxroom filing our edges to death every other day and it would feel like I couldn't get an edge otherwise. The idea that the edge could be "polished" back to sharpness was alien to me. That being said, on skinny skis in the 90s, it took a lot of work to set an edge and little kids were at a disadvantage. I was basically skidding…

For super G or WC downhill skis, they barely have enough edge. The techs at these levels probably don't file at all, maybe one time per pair.
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