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The internet is already over (2022)

samkriss.substack.com

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Re: The internet is already over (2022)

#161
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Small private communities are contrary to some of the most important, biggest promises of the Internet (and the web): that it would be open and really big. It was supposed to be a place where some kid in rural Africa with only 8 years of schooling could learn how to be a software developer, or where people could naturally find and join communities too small to have a local presence (eg people really into collecting v…

> that it would be open and really big. I think that was the aspiration, but nobody realized there were so many people who thought 5G caused corona (and similar lack of thought process) until it was too late.

>so many people who thought 5G caused corona

literally nobody thought this, perhaps except a handful of oddballs. If you want to make your case for describing the state of the internet, please avoid nonsense exaggerations like this.

Re: The internet is already over (2022)

#162
post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that it would be open and really big. I think that was the aspiration, but nobody realized there were so many people who thought 5G caused corona (and similar lack of thought process) until it was too late.

>so many people who thought 5G caused corona literally nobody thought this, perhaps except a handful of oddballs. If you want to make your case for describing the state of the internet, please avoid nonsense exaggerations like this.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/10/technology/coronavirus-5g...

oddballs, i agree. but a dangerous group of oddballs.

> Across Britain, more than 30 acts of arson and vandalism have taken place against wireless towers and other telecom gear this month, according to police reports and a telecom trade group. In roughly 80 other incidents in the country, telecom technicians have been harassed on the job.

that is not a small number, we discuss smaller things on HN. And these are only the cases that have manifested in to arson or harassment, so includes zero couch conspiracy theorists.

Re: The internet is already over (2022)

#163
post #151

This is an overly wordy article, that I think misses the mark. The internet _as the Western world knows it today_ will not be the same in a few decades. But then again, it's hardly the same today as it was 30 years ago either. A few things affect this: - Advertising. It's everywhere and corrupts every form of media. Content is made to appease advertisers, and web services are built to extract data from users. The int…

> The idea that connecting the world will make it a better place and undo the millennia of tribalism is a romanticized platitude of the 1990s. This only applies in media that allows censorship, and controls visibility. If it doesn't, the bigots are easy to identify and weed themselves out. If it foes, the bigots can form bubbles, and foster tribalism.

I think you'll find bigotry is actually quite popular worldwide.

Re: The internet is already over (2022)

#164

We got the Internet that advertising built. This was not how we (well some of us early 90s and before) users assumed it would pan out. It has been my experience that private Internet communities (groups, forums, messaging chats) are where the quality discussion happens these days. Away from the advertising and the controversy seeking (and anti-tech) mainstream media reporters.

Small private communities are contrary to some of the most important, biggest promises of the Internet (and the web): that it would be open and really big. It was supposed to be a place where some kid in rural Africa with only 8 years of schooling could learn how to be a software developer, or where people could naturally find and join communities too small to have a local presence (eg people really into collecting v…

> Small private communities are contrary to some of the most important, biggest promises of the Internet (and the web): that it would be open and really big.

The many forums that existed fulfilled both of those. Open to read for anyone, really big in aggregate and mostly small and private communities of participants.

Re: The internet is already over (2022)

#165
I think what is ending is not the Internet, but eternal September. Because soon every person in the world is online and there will be no more new people to continually corrupt the netiquette that we've built. Eventually we as a society will learn and form habits and social rules (or even laws) that create more harmony than chaos online. It's chaos right now because we're overwhelmed not just by people, but by corporations who do not have any framework for behavior that is conducive to a sustainable, functional Internet. Even corporations will eventually understand that this is destructive to their business in the long run.

Perhaps, just like with civilization IRL, it will start with pockets of societies that have specific ideals for collaboration. And then the successful pockets grow to include more and more.

Re: The internet is already over (2022)

#166
Reading this kind of hurts. The observations are correct, it's just most of the conclusions the author comes to are deranged. And how they're written? It all just sounds like it was written by a tinfoil hat wearing english major desperate to stay relevant.

First of all, the internet isn't on the verge of imploding, it's just in flux, as per usual. It also isn't stagnating, at least not on such a grand scale. Though it does feel as though it's lost a bit of steam in the last few years. That could be due to the homegeneitiy of the current investment landscape.

The author tries to sell us a doom spiral by comparing the state of services. They attempt to connect different services as if they're representative of a pulse for the internet as a whole. But the differences between Facebook and Tik Tok are vast, between Twitter and MySpace, between forums and Discord. Declining numbers in any of these does not indicate decline in any other service, nor the internet as a whole. Not to mention most of these are controlled by monolithic entities who also don't contribute to the web outside their bloated bubbles, the performance of these services are largely based on the performance of these companies and their investments. If one dies, it's a largely isolated event.

All the most recent, negative changes were made by spurious investments into anything that even seemed remotely profitable by eager investors. These bubbles will burst, and when they do, some people won't even notice the change. Some, of course, will be forced to adapt, or to leave the internet entirely. That'll likely mean the www will lose a lot of its traffic, but that doesn't sound bad for the internet as a whole... in fact it sounds good.

Companies are only making the internet worse because they believe there's money to be made. That, as the author points out, is not really going to be true for much longer, at least not for the current wave of companies. And when that happens, new companies will have to step in and pick up the pieces if they want to profit off the internet. Unfortunately for them, there's just not enough lubrication to keep an aging population of users relearning all their old habits in new environments.

I believe the internet, as it is now, will not survive for the individual. However, every individual must make that journey on their own terms. The author clearly made their journey ages ago, or perhaps was always skeptical. Others, however still have to make that trek. I have a few younger friends still in the beginning of their internet obsession where they (somehow) can still find regular content that interests them on the www. This group is likely to be the last large wave for advertisers. So, when they're done, that's it; The internet won't be worth investing in, and everyone who only ever used it kill time will go along side the companies. Those that made the journey will stay if they have use for a post-corporate internet.

The article, of course, assumes that the internet is just for fapping and killing time, when in reality it's used for a lot more than just that. Fapping and killing time is just what's being subsidized by the numerous companies invested in the internet. The article doesn't consider this, it doesn't consider that there were points before the current one, or that there are even corners of the internet where people share software and ideas. No, it just assumes that once this fad dies, the internet dies. I personally believe the internet has uses outside what companies invest in, and it's not hard to use it for just those purposes. That's enough of a reason to keep coming back.

All that being said, I do agree with the author regarding causes on the internet. One essentially does nothing when they try to devote their time to a cause online. Unless one explicitly uses the internet to organize action with others in meatspace, the internet is essentially worthless as a medium for revolution. Actually, it's worse than worthless, it's detrimental as it encourages non-action. In most cases even supporting forces who would ostracize those that would push for more forceful and aggressive action against the status quo. The corporate internet has largely made revolutionaries into pacifists, a trait which makes them non-threatening to those in power.

Even calmly explaining all this is a bit mastubatory and counter-productive. What I should be doing is running in local elections, organizing meetups, or sabotaging power structures in a variety of ways. I should be speaking in plain language about all of this, and freely expressing myself. Instead I'm here, explaining the obvious flaws of an article, while simultaneously not-so-subtly advertising my views regarding the web like it matters.

Re: The internet is already over (2022)

#167
post #144
post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm just glad there are browser extensions that remove all that Youtube dross no questions asked. It's interesting to me that somebody would try and curate their experience in this shitshoveling assault on the nerves that is Youtube recommendations.

It’s completely automatic at this point, I barely notice my actions :) Can you maybe recommend some extensions please? I’m only using unhook (some of) and sponsorblock, but it would be nice to e.g. dislike videos right from the feed or ban channels from their video or a channel page. Oh, and the one that loads X button in history immediately.

Unhook sounds right, but I forget it's there because it just works.

Re: The internet is already over (2022)

#168
> In 1977, Ken Olsen declared that ‘there is no reason for any individual to have a computer in his home.’

To be fair, he was talking about big iron mainframes. He envisioned everyone having a dumb terminal in their home rather than a microcomputer (which we effectively call "the pc").

Re: The internet is already over (2022)

#169
post #151

This is an overly wordy article, that I think misses the mark. The internet _as the Western world knows it today_ will not be the same in a few decades. But then again, it's hardly the same today as it was 30 years ago either. A few things affect this: - Advertising. It's everywhere and corrupts every form of media. Content is made to appease advertisers, and web services are built to extract data from users. The int…

Honestly I welcome the 'death' of the internet with open arms. Irrespective of the enshittification flavor of the day, the end result is the same - face to face human relationships will be back in vogue again, and the internet will go back to a complimentary role at best.

I would also like people to let go of the idea that the internet is Serious Business. People who live their lives on Twitter, discussing political matters of grave importance, people getting 'canceled' over inane shit is just ridiculous.

It should go back to trash talk and funny memes, and cat pictures and sharing baking recipes.

Re: The internet is already over (2022)

#170
post #151

This is an overly wordy article, that I think misses the mark. The internet _as the Western world knows it today_ will not be the same in a few decades. But then again, it's hardly the same today as it was 30 years ago either. A few things affect this: - Advertising. It's everywhere and corrupts every form of media. Content is made to appease advertisers, and web services are built to extract data from users. The int…

> The idea that connecting the world will make it a better place and undo the millennia of tribalism is a romanticized platitude of the 1990s. This only applies in media that allows censorship, and controls visibility. If it doesn't, the bigots are easy to identify and weed themselves out. If it foes, the bigots can form bubbles, and foster tribalism.

This is probably an even worse “platitude”. Most people go with the flow so if you’re immersed in a lot of bigotry, you will probably end up being a bigot eventually. Then it just spreads, especially if you couple the bigotry with humor. Bigotry is tribalism and seems naturally engrained so it’s something you have to actively resist.
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