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Do Skis Get Blunt?

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Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#21

Post by gorbypark »

It totally depends on the type of skier and the type of skis you have. I worked in the ski industry and thus lived and worked in ski towns for 15 years. If you are a ski racer, tuning edges matter. If you aggressively ride groomers all day, then they will matter. Riding big fat powder skis everyday, inside and outside of the resort? More or less doesn't matter. Are you a park rat that only ever skis the park? Those folks will actually detune their edges on purpose.

If you are a beginner / intermediate skier (someone who never to rarely carves a ski), edges on the blunter side of things can actually help you out. Sure, it's a bit more sketchy on ice, however just doing a "slide turn" is going to be much easier. It will take less force to make your skis point where you want them too, making you much more confident. It's one of the reasons they put beginners on smaller skis. Less edge = easier turning.

I have skis that were kept dry and haven't been sharpened in years and ski perfectly fine and it's exactly how I want them.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#22

Post by shermantanktop »

grivant wrote: post #15

[flagged]

It's an guy blogging about sports gear that he doesn't seem to have much experience with, but has instead used a geek gadget and reasoning-from-first-principles to analyze and then blog about it, with a youtube-style "I debunked the myth" flavor to the narrative. I have seen plenty of other stuff like this on HN...though this isn't the best example of the genre, that's for sure.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#23

Post by swader999 »

m463 wrote: post #14

I have to wonder... The article shows edges and the effect of sharpening. However, I would imagine corrosion makes much of the surface of the ski more abrasive and that could explain the grabbiness. Is there any science behind the edge assertions? almost all of it is anecdotal. I can't help but think of overengineering and a/v systems. For example, I can't tell any difference from different speaker wires (except bad…

You will see rust on your edges if you leave them wet and don't wipe them off. It can be removed with a soft gummy stone. A thick layer of wax left on the skis and edges keeps them rust free over the summer. Typically done for race skis or higher end skis.

I don't worry about corrosion much, but I'm tuning the skis I use on ice every couple of days.

My powder skis get waxed every few days, edges only to set up the angles once. Maybe once a season after that or to fix as best I can when hitting rocks.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#24

Post by amluto »

creato wrote: post #17
swader999 wrote: post #8

I'm a ski race parent. I tune every couple of days on snow. My U12 boy skis on 0.5 degrees base bevel, three degrees side edge. Here he is on a firm course at his last race this year: https://youtu.be/RWYO2ib-qe8?si=CRH01ViFUFApSx_o Setting that up is difficult but it's pretty easy to maintain once it is there. Side cut.com has great advice and tools. If you are on groomers and ski on decent skis, not powder boards,…

You can see in this video that the interaction of the ski with the snow is much more than just the edge of the ski. I really doubt the fine tuning of the edge matters that much. I don’t think there is any objective way to settle this debate. I think if you enjoy tuning skis, go for it. I like sharpening knives and tools so I get it. But I don’t bother with my skis.

It sounds entirely straightforward to do a randomized, blinded test of freshly sharpened vs unsharpened skis. (Okay, the skier can feel the edge or look closely, but a cooperative skier could just not do that for the purpose of the experiment.)

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#25

Post by swader999 »

creato wrote: post #17
swader999 wrote: post #8

I'm a ski race parent. I tune every couple of days on snow. My U12 boy skis on 0.5 degrees base bevel, three degrees side edge. Here he is on a firm course at his last race this year: https://youtu.be/RWYO2ib-qe8?si=CRH01ViFUFApSx_o Setting that up is difficult but it's pretty easy to maintain once it is there. Side cut.com has great advice and tools. If you are on groomers and ski on decent skis, not powder boards,…

You can see in this video that the interaction of the ski with the snow is much more than just the edge of the ski. I really doubt the fine tuning of the edge matters that much. I don’t think there is any objective way to settle this debate. I think if you enjoy tuning skis, go for it. I like sharpening knives and tools so I get it. But I don’t bother with my skis.

Edges matter a lot for racing and carving, impossible to learn and progress without tuned skis and propper angles. Like going to ice hockey practice with dull skates, it just doesn't work. Parents obsess over wax at this age but it actually only adds a bit of speed, but boots and edges are critical.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#27

Post by swader999 »

gorbypark wrote: post #21

It totally depends on the type of skier and the type of skis you have. I worked in the ski industry and thus lived and worked in ski towns for 15 years. If you are a ski racer, tuning edges matter. If you aggressively ride groomers all day, then they will matter. Riding big fat powder skis everyday, inside and outside of the resort? More or less doesn't matter. Are you a park rat that only ever skis the park? Those f…

For park or intermediate on ice, I would still give them a decent tune but use a one degree base bevel, that'll rarely hook but give a lot of confidence on ice.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#28

Post by jajko »

swader999 wrote: post #23
m463 wrote: post #14

I have to wonder... The article shows edges and the effect of sharpening. However, I would imagine corrosion makes much of the surface of the ski more abrasive and that could explain the grabbiness. Is there any science behind the edge assertions? almost all of it is anecdotal. I can't help but think of overengineering and a/v systems. For example, I can't tell any difference from different speaker wires (except bad…

You will see rust on your edges if you leave them wet and don't wipe them off. It can be removed with a soft gummy stone. A thick layer of wax left on the skis and edges keeps them rust free over the summer. Typically done for race skis or higher end skis. I don't worry about corrosion much, but I'm tuning the skis I use on ice every couple of days. My powder skis get waxed every few days, edges only to set up the an…

Edges makes bigger difference in ski touring or more appropriately ski alpinism. Meaning tricky steep slopes where you sometimes switch skis for crampons and ice axe and put them on backpack, wildly varying conditions on the slopes. Or using ski crampons when its less extreme.

There, any advantage is very important, ie how precisely you put skins on skis to leave that little bit of edge for... edging, at least thats what we call it. I don't think it makes a massive difference there how sharp your edges are, but in steep icy/crusty slopes where your skis don't even leave a mark as you pass, only crampons a bit, everything helping is more than welcome. I never clean them thoroughly though so edges are rusty, 10-15 years of moderate use of skis makes no difference to me.

Also, in usual piste skiing in resorts, if you go really fast, at least relative to rest of skiers, and slope is a bit icy, sharp edges make a lot of difference in how stable skis are in turns. There even I can feel difference between dulled and sharpened ones.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#29

Post by creato »

djtango wrote: post #16
creato wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The question is whether this is a good model for an actual ski on ice. What you describe might be a good model for an absolutely perfect carve, but that basically never happens in reality. When it does, it’s on softer snow where the tuned corner of the edge is a negligible part of the overall interaction with the snow. I agree with the quoted skier in the post, tuning skis doesn’t matter. I am someone who puts 400+ d…

Other people are reporting that they can feel it with ice. Do you ski much on ice?

I’ve certainly skied ice and all kinds of crust.

In my experience true ice isn’t that bad in terms of grip, it’s rarely so smooth that edges can’t easily grip on surface imperfections. It’s not fun to ski because it’s very high impact.

I think what most people talk about as icy and slippery that seems to form on skied off groomers is actually some kind of crust that is hard to get edge hold in because the snow is somehow very firm but not well bonded to itself either, so what little edge penetration you get just scrapes off easily and doesn’t support the ski. When I try to picture what is going on in such snow, edge sharpness doesn’t matter, you might penetrate marginally deeper but that just means you’re scraping marginally more snow off.

Re: Do Skis Get Blunt?

#30

Post by swader999 »

amluto wrote: post #24
creato wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can see in this video that the interaction of the ski with the snow is much more than just the edge of the ski. I really doubt the fine tuning of the edge matters that much. I don’t think there is any objective way to settle this debate. I think if you enjoy tuning skis, go for it. I like sharpening knives and tools so I get it. But I don’t bother with my skis.

It sounds entirely straightforward to do a randomized, blinded test of freshly sharpened vs unsharpened skis. (Okay, the skier can feel the edge or look closely, but a cooperative skier could just not do that for the purpose of the experiment.)

Yes! And coaches will typically pull the kids from training if they show up dull. They'll go in the race shack and tune their edges and visually improve to all after fixing them.
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