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"AI", students, and epistemic crisis

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Re: "AI", students, and epistemic crisis

#91

Post by nebulous1 »

cheschire wrote: post #58
nebulous1 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's pretty clear that as a tool they can be used very effectively if you have at least some understanding of their limitations. I will say that wikipedia, as things stand, is way more accurate than chatgpt. So much so that comparing them doesn't even make sense to me.

Until you can quantifiably prove Wikipedia is more accurate than ChatGPT, I’m not sure how you can say GP’s comparison doesn’t make sense.

Okay, I can't defend that because in reality I'm talking purely from my subjective experience. I will say that in my experience it isn't close at all. However, I will also say that a lot of the things that chatgpt gets wrong for me, wikipedia just won't contain at all, but then chatgpt seeming confident when it's wrong is basically the whole problem.

Re: "AI", students, and epistemic crisis

#92

Post by par1970 »

lionkor wrote: post #81
par1970 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does “self-evident” just mean that anyone who knows the sentence’s meaning can determine that it is true without any need to gather empirical data? eg, All bachelors are unmarried. eg, If X is a triangle, then X has three sides. eg, the world is round or it is not the case that the world is round. And does “universally recognized” just mean that most people believe the proposition is true?

In this context an axiom is a nonlogical axiom, in other words an assumption, one that is not to be questioned or discussed

Okay. So, in your original comment are you asserting that teachers are mostly telling students to believe propositions without giving any epistemic justification for those propositions?

Re: "AI", students, and epistemic crisis

#93

Post by hayley-patton »

cheschire wrote: post #54
Kiro wrote: post #39

Am I the only one who almost never experience any hallucinations when talking to ChatGPT? I have to really push it into a corner with trick questions and conflicting instructions about obscure topics in order to trigger hallucinations. That it would just come up with random false facts about something as common and "basic" as the history of the Greek language sounds like a made-up issue.

I know it feels like 4o has been out forever but go back to the 3.5 model without internet access for a while, which is all that a lot of students can afford. It’s kind of terrible. But yeah ever since I could start adding “and include an explanation with citations” to my prompts I’ve not had an issue with hallucinations more than once or twice.

Does it give real citations? I've heard it gives bogus citations, though can't remember how well it went last time.

Re: "AI", students, and epistemic crisis

#94

Post by EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK »

sieste wrote: post #23

Like probably many people here I still remember having to find facts in books in libraries, before the internet made this skill mostly redundant. Then, as a student I remember having to put together facts from various (internet) sources into a coherent narrative. Now chatbots can just generate text and that skill seems less valuable. I use both the internet and GenAI extensively now. But I feel that having gone throu…

Ok, fellow boomer. And who do you think is the populace most likely to fall for Nigerian princes and believe in 5G Bill Gates vax chips?

Re: "AI", students, and epistemic crisis

#95

Post by allsummer »

csantini wrote: post #47

> Not as wrong as the author thinks. From Britannica.com: "Greek language, Indo-European language spoken mostly in Greece. Its history can be divided into four phases: Ancient Greek, Koine, Byzantine Greek, and Modern Greek."

What happened was either the teacher is severely biased against ChatGPT and fabricated the fact to fit their narrative. Or ChatGPT gave the correct answer, but the student interpreted it wrong.

I do believe the students keep coming up with weird (correct) facts, and that this can be scary for a teacher who is stuck at a search bar.

Re: "AI", students, and epistemic crisis

#96

Post by Semaphor »

relaxing wrote: post #83
Semaphor wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you didn’t get the idea to just show them, as I said, either? I’m not saying it’s impossible for little kids not to know about it, I’m saying it’s very straightforward to show them why that’s wrong by using the one tool they seem to believe.

You don’t work with kids as public school teacher.

Please explain what’s wrong about my reasoning then?

Re: "AI", students, and epistemic crisis

#97

Post by cheschire »

hayley-patton wrote: post #93
cheschire wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know it feels like 4o has been out forever but go back to the 3.5 model without internet access for a while, which is all that a lot of students can afford. It’s kind of terrible. But yeah ever since I could start adding “and include an explanation with citations” to my prompts I’ve not had an issue with hallucinations more than once or twice.

Does it give real citations? I've heard it gives bogus citations, though can't remember how well it went last time.

I haven’t had any issues, but I’m not using it to do “real” research so the veracity of sources has been less of an issue for me. I typically ask, then spot check sources.

If I’m using it to make purchase decisions or scheduling my day then I use it purely to find me source pages.

It’s really terrible at calculating the cost of services.

Re: "AI", students, and epistemic crisis

#98

Post by cheschire »

nebulous1 wrote: post #91
cheschire wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until you can quantifiably prove Wikipedia is more accurate than ChatGPT, I’m not sure how you can say GP’s comparison doesn’t make sense.

Okay, I can't defend that because in reality I'm talking purely from my subjective experience. I will say that in my experience it isn't close at all. However, I will also say that a lot of the things that chatgpt gets wrong for me, wikipedia just won't contain at all, but then chatgpt seeming confident when it's wrong is basically the whole problem.

Wikipedia has well documented and explored issues related to vandalism, bias, and misinformation.

But don’t get me wrong, I also view ChatGPT conversations as being on par with pub chats as far as “confident facts” go.

I think our difference may be in how we view Wikipedia.

Re: "AI", students, and epistemic crisis

#99

Post by allsummer »

EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK wrote: post #94
sieste wrote: post #23

Like probably many people here I still remember having to find facts in books in libraries, before the internet made this skill mostly redundant. Then, as a student I remember having to put together facts from various (internet) sources into a coherent narrative. Now chatbots can just generate text and that skill seems less valuable. I use both the internet and GenAI extensively now. But I feel that having gone throu…

Ok, fellow boomer. And who do you think is the populace most likely to fall for Nigerian princes and believe in 5G Bill Gates vax chips?

That there are lots of people who believe in 5G Bill Gates vax chips is itself fake news. It is well poisoning to pre-empt criticism of billionaires with too much power and free time to meddle in African population growth and pandemic response. Supported by "smart" people who want to feel good and trust the science on 5G safety.

There are Microsoft patents for microchips to track body activity to reward in cryptocurrency and subsidiaries who wanted to microchip vaccine passports into the hands of immigrants.

Re: "AI", students, and epistemic crisis

#100

Post by allsummer »

watwut wrote: post #76
Kiro wrote: post #39

Am I the only one who almost never experience any hallucinations when talking to ChatGPT? I have to really push it into a corner with trick questions and conflicting instructions about obscure topics in order to trigger hallucinations. That it would just come up with random false facts about something as common and "basic" as the history of the Greek language sounds like a made-up issue.

I don't need corner. I asked him for valid IISExpress config file. Chatbots are great systetising in areas where there is a strong open source like culture - a lot of people writing tutorials and on stack overflow. The moment you move into area that is not popular to write about, they start making stuff up. And it sux massively. I would much rather seen "I don't know" then what ChatGPT produces currently.

Start small, like asking him to review your grammar.
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