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Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

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Re: Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

#91

Post by msutherl »

jamesjyu wrote: post #69
yummyfajitas wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will also have to drastically downplay the importance of footwork. In a real swordfight, where to put your feet is nearly as important as where to put the sword.

This is also true for a plethora of sports games as well, specifically racquet based games. Swinging the racquet is less than half the battle -- footwork, in most physical types of activities, is much more important. Omnidirectional treadmill? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omnidirectional_treadmill

These things are ridiculous. Researcher: "We need an omnidirectional treadmill, but how?" Engineer: "Oh, that's easy. We'll just make a gigantic TREADMILL OF TREADMILLS."

Re: Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

#92

Post by gchpaco »

defen wrote: post #74

I'm curious how they plan to implement actual medieval / early Renaissance combat tactics with a controller like the one in the video - how would you do half-swording or something like the Mordhau? For people who aren't medieval geeks - half-sword is when you hold the sword halfway up the blade with your left hand, in order to deliver a more accurate, powerful thrust; perhaps after trapping your opponent's sword betw…

It looks as though they're pursuing the unarmored combat of Liechtenauer than the armored knight combat of later period, where swords basically stopped being useful against breastplates and the like and folks went in more for maces and war hammers. Liechtenauer does, IIRC, have halfswording in the basic form but mostly it is about geometry and footwork.

Re: Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

#93

Post by msutherl »

6ren wrote: post #35
antipax wrote: post #6

Biggest problem with these games (I've found, anyway) is that your sword controller cannot magically stop in mid air when your virtual sword hits another sword or a wall or whatever. It really ruins the immersion.

I wonder if it is possible in some way with gyroscopes. Not going all the time, but spun up quickly, to provide counter resistance for a specific direction of rotation. You could spin up two, in opposite directions, to counter the torque from acceleration. Difficult to spin them up fast enough, but perhaps just the sensation of some resistance would be enough feedback.

I bet you could come up with something passable between 2 off-axis gyroscopes, 2 large induction motors (magnet suspended in a coil that vibrates back and forth – can achieve below 1hz - ~300hz vibration) and some more standard vibrators.

Re: Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

#94

Post by brianobush »

antipax wrote: post #6

Biggest problem with these games (I've found, anyway) is that your sword controller cannot magically stop in mid air when your virtual sword hits another sword or a wall or whatever. It really ruins the immersion.

my approach to realistic fighting is: go to kendo keiko as often as possible. even the bruises seem real.

Re: Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

#95

Post by TootsMagoon »

6ren wrote: post #35
antipax wrote: post #6

Biggest problem with these games (I've found, anyway) is that your sword controller cannot magically stop in mid air when your virtual sword hits another sword or a wall or whatever. It really ruins the immersion.

I wonder if it is possible in some way with gyroscopes. Not going all the time, but spun up quickly, to provide counter resistance for a specific direction of rotation. You could spin up two, in opposite directions, to counter the torque from acceleration. Difficult to spin them up fast enough, but perhaps just the sensation of some resistance would be enough feedback.

Interesting idea. However, would that create an unnatural, 'valley of the uncanny', type feel? Approaching realism but falling short and ultimately distracting?

Re: Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

#96

Post by twelvechairs »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #15
antipax wrote: post #6

Biggest problem with these games (I've found, anyway) is that your sword controller cannot magically stop in mid air when your virtual sword hits another sword or a wall or whatever. It really ruins the immersion.

It will also have to drastically downplay the importance of footwork. In a real swordfight, where to put your feet is nearly as important as where to put the sword.

This is why I don't like games talking about how 'realistic' they will be. Firstly, because anything that runs on a standard computer will be far from reality anyway, and secondly because often users don't actually want reality (eg. most FPSs have far from realistic walking speeds - for good reason. Also stylised graphics etc.).

That said, the concept of different styles of swordplay is great - and having more 'realism' in that is something I think is pretty admirable.

Re: Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

#97

Post by justinhj »

I wish him luck. Various projects have come along with backing from people outside the video game industry with the goal of being more realistic, more revolutionary and so on. But it's a lot harder to make a playable fun game. Realism often isn't fun. Modern Warfare 3 is the culmination of 20 years of evolution from Wolfenstein, and still is nothing like being a real soldier.

Re: Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

#98

Post by repsilat »

lionhearted wrote: post #64
yummyfajitas wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will also have to drastically downplay the importance of footwork. In a real swordfight, where to put your feet is nearly as important as where to put the sword.

> In a real swordfight, where to put your feet is nearly as important as where to put the sword. Arguably more important. I fenced epee in university, and our coach was a little bit old school -- we went weeks just doing footwork before getting a weapon put in hand.

Well, in epee your opponent can score by stabbing you in the foot. That's naturally going to give where you put your place your feet a little importance to begin with.

Re: Neal Stephenson wants to revolutionize sword fighting video games

#99

Post by alinajaf »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #15
antipax wrote: post #6

Biggest problem with these games (I've found, anyway) is that your sword controller cannot magically stop in mid air when your virtual sword hits another sword or a wall or whatever. It really ruins the immersion.

It will also have to drastically downplay the importance of footwork. In a real swordfight, where to put your feet is nearly as important as where to put the sword.

And intimately related, distance. In Kendo at least you win or lose by knowing where the cutting part (the forward 1/4 - 1/3) of your sword is going to be at the moment you make contact. This means thinking strategically about distance (e.g. I can feint a forearm strike and still have enough space to cut across the abdomen if she raises her sword to block.)
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