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Why haven't biologists cured cancer?

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11–20 of 111 posts

Re: Why haven't biologists cured cancer?

#11
Cancer is among the stickiest of medical wickets, for several reasons:

* Cancer is not a disease, it's a family of diseases, with a wide spectrum of causes, symptoms, and treatments.

* Cancer is, fundamentally, a mutiny of your own cells against the rest of your body. Because cancer is fundamentally a part of you, it can shanghai some of the resources your body normally uses for itself, like blood vessel infrastructure. It can also masquerade as a healthy part of you, for example to your immune system. Hell, part of your immune system can become cancer (as in leukemia)!

* Cancer metastasizes, which means that even if you get rid of the main tumor, a few of those rebellious cancer cells can use your circulatory or lymphatic systems to start new rebel colonies elsewhere in your body, which means you could be fucked all over again. Treating this form of cancer can be an arduous, painful, sickness-inducing process of chemo- and/or radiotherapy.

We are closer than ever to "a cure for cancer" with things like immunotherapy treatments which can program your immune system to target the specific kind of cancer you have. Unfortunately, most of these need to be tailored per patient, which procedure is neither cheap nor routine. And it still doesn't always work for all cancers!

Re: Why haven't biologists cured cancer?

#12

I don't have anything to add, but still wanted to say thanks for sharing. One of my friends passed away earlier this year due to cancer and one of the questions I've kept wondering about has been about our slow progress in curing cancer. (Which admittedly stems from my own utter ignorance on the subject!) Edit: I've thought of something worth adding. I've been told that certain datasets related to biology and chemist…

One of my friends passed away earlier this year due to cancer and one of the questions I've kept wondering about has been about our slow progress in curing cancer. (Which admittedly stems from my own utter ignorance on the subject!)

A lot of that "slow progress" is due to the FDA's intransigence and conservatism, even in the face of patients like me who are dying already anyway: https://jakeseliger.com/2023/07/22/i-am-dying-of-squamous-ce...

See also "The dead and dying at the gates of oncology clinical trials" https://jakeseliger.com/2024/01/29/the-dead-and-dying-at-the... and my wife on what trying to enroll in clinical trials is like from the patient's perspective: "Please be dying, but not too quickly: a clinical trial story" https://bessstillman.substack.com/p/please-be-dying-but-not-...

We could and should be moving faster. I'm dying anyway, so if a treatment doesn't work or even harms me, I'm not much worse off than I was before the treatment.

Re: Why haven't biologists cured cancer?

#13
Lovely article. The part that resonates most with me is towards the end: What some software developers would refer to as "friction". Medical tests are high friction for reasons the author hinted at. I'm optimistic some of the cfDNA or fragmentome cancer screenings will be useful for catching cancer early. If you try to dig on the topics, you'll find that the projects (GRAIL etc) are proud their methods and datasets are proprietary. The ones that play the political and business game best are getting funding for trials.

It seems there is a steady stream of progress in biology and its medical tie-ins, but it is slow and cumbersome. Unrelated: It seems like a lot of the techniques in biology are discovered partly by chance (ie dedicated work in an area that bears fruit, perhaps not in an expected form). Ways to leverage various bacteria, phages, proteins etc to provide insight, or perform a manipulation. The molecular biology techniques we have available seem like a tiny fraction of what we could discover. And in a way, it seems as much engineering or tool-making as science.

Re: Why haven't biologists cured cancer?

#14

The little anecdote about Peter Thiel about shitty physicists going into biology reminded me of a chapter from Richard Feynman's book, "Surely Your Joking Mr. Feynman". So it turns out Richard Feynman, after working in Los Alamos on the first nuclear bomb, and before going on to win a Nobel in Physics, actually did a stint as a biologist at CalTech. In fact he was doing some of the earliest work on ribosomes... so fu…

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Re: Why haven't biologists cured cancer?

#15
This idea of "curing cancer" as if cancer was a monolithic disease really needs to die.

Cancer is just a catch-all term for somatic cell mutations that become unmanageable. There are as many ways to get "cancer" as there are ways to mutate cells into these sort of uncontrollable states. And there are cures for multiple cancers today (Imantinib, Herceptin, etc). There actually have been enormous recent strides in drugs like PD-1 inhibitors that do have a broad spectrum affect against cancers, but I think outside of this one particular example, the real math problem is how do you expect to contain a mutational state of a cell with 10000x ways to reach that state with a single, or even handful of drugs?

Re: Why haven't biologists cured cancer?

#16
post #3

I don't have anything to add, but still wanted to say thanks for sharing. One of my friends passed away earlier this year due to cancer and one of the questions I've kept wondering about has been about our slow progress in curing cancer. (Which admittedly stems from my own utter ignorance on the subject!) Edit: I've thought of something worth adding. I've been told that certain datasets related to biology and chemist…

It's important to understand that there'll never be "a cure for cancer". Cancer is not a single disease. It's more like a meta-disease. There are tons of different types of cancer and the path for treatment is not the same. We've made tremendous progress in the last 20-30 years. There are some cancers that *are* effectively curable. And others still vex us just as much as they always have.

>It's important to understand that there'll never be "a cure for cancer". Cancer is not a single disease. It's more like a meta-disease. There are tons of different types of cancer and the path for treatment is not the same.

I'll make an even border generalization. Cancer is one of the hallmarks of aging. And aging itself somewhat loosely defined will include all types of cancer and what are typically regarded as non-cancers, like Alzheimer's.

Re: Why haven't biologists cured cancer?

#17
post #3

I don't have anything to add, but still wanted to say thanks for sharing. One of my friends passed away earlier this year due to cancer and one of the questions I've kept wondering about has been about our slow progress in curing cancer. (Which admittedly stems from my own utter ignorance on the subject!) Edit: I've thought of something worth adding. I've been told that certain datasets related to biology and chemist…

It's important to understand that there'll never be "a cure for cancer". Cancer is not a single disease. It's more like a meta-disease. There are tons of different types of cancer and the path for treatment is not the same. We've made tremendous progress in the last 20-30 years. There are some cancers that *are* effectively curable. And others still vex us just as much as they always have.

Saying we can never cure cancer because it's not a single disease doesn't quite strike me as accurate.

I'm not an expert so feel free to correct me, but my understanding is that there are plenty of other animals, such as the naked mole rat, that are effectively immune to all forms of cancer because while it might not technically be one disease, all forms of cancer share enough characteristics that there exist a small group of genes that are able to suppress it or develop an immune response that effectively prevents a tumor from growing.

Re: Why haven't biologists cured cancer?

#18
Contrary to the political priors of VCs, I think the real answers are pretty mundane:

1. Funding. Drugs have a low probability of success and a long lag time. Investors think in discount rates. A high-risk venture like biology is less appealing than an advertising-based tech platform with zero marginal costs.

2. Costs. Biology uses a LOT of proprietary instruments, kits, and chemical reagents. A lot. It also needs a lot of manual labor that would be difficult to roboticize.

3. Time. Biological experiments operate on biological timescales. Code takes seconds to run. Cell cultures take a day to grow. Even fancy new multiplexed sequencing assays take a while. You have the library prep time, the sequencing, and the downstream analysis. Its a long process. Now imagine waiting years and years to see if a drug in clinical trial prevents Alzheimer's.

4. Complexity. How do you make an equation for a giant network of weakly-interacting parts? Biology is a very "data-driven" field for this reason. The introduction of new microscopy, chemical conjugation techniques, and high-throughput assays has only made things worse. I genuinely hope some black box AI will be able to help us make sense of this mess and cure cancer. But medicine is full of interventions and incomplete prior histories, which will make naive association models hard to use.

Re: Why haven't biologists cured cancer?

#19
post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compare: "When will we finally cure parasites", or "limb injuries".

With limb injuries, are you predicting that we'll never figure out a way to regrow limbs? It is my understanding that there's nothing inherently impossible about regrowing limbs, we are only limited by our lack of knowledge and existing capabilities.

As an aside, it's interesting to note that there is a hypothesis that one reason why humans, and most other species, do not regrow limbs is precisely as a means of protecting against cancer. The few species that are able to regenerate limbs usually have to activate the regeneration, and that activation involves turning on an immune surveillance system that seeks out potentially cancerous cells and kill them efficiently.
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