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First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

pme.uchicago.edu

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Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If you're the one making claims its on you to provide sources. If you're just saying things and putting question marks on the end people are going to treat it the same way they treat newspaper headlines, which is to say any headline ending in a question mark probably has an answer of no.

I read this as asking questions not making claims.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#92
post #3

Na4MnCr(PO4)3 Chromium is 5 times more abundant than Lithium in earth crust (0.01% vs 0.002%). Better, but not that much ? "Regular" sodium-ion batteries with prussian blue has, it seems, the great advantage of not using any scarce elements. It would be nice to have a comparison between this solid state chemistry and the regular one.

The difference in their geochemistry is substantial so even if chromium isn't technically that much more abundant, it's significantly easier to mine. The Gibbs free energy of formation for chromium oxides and chromite is much more negative than for lithium-bearing minerals so Cr compounds are thermodynamically favored to precipitate out of melts and solutions, forming minerals with high concentrations that then get p…

Another difference is that chromates are wildly toxic...

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#93

Lithium has actually dropped in price by 80% over the last two years, so this part of the article is (currently) wrong: “ The lithium commonly used for batteries isn’t that common. It makes up about 20 parts per million of the Earth’s crust, compared to sodium, which makes up 20,000 parts per million. This scarcity, combined with the surge in demand for the lithium-ion batteries for laptops, phones and EVs, have sent…

Yeah. Prof Meng talking about that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yRAJSH_raW8&t=858s

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If you're the one making claims its on you to provide sources. If you're just saying things and putting question marks on the end people are going to treat it the same way they treat newspaper headlines, which is to say any headline ending in a question mark probably has an answer of no.

As an aside, Betteridge's law of headlines, to the extent that it has been studied, appears to be incorrect. The answer is slightly more likely to be yes.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#95
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're the one making claims its on you to provide sources. If you're just saying things and putting question marks on the end people are going to treat it the same way they treat newspaper headlines, which is to say any headline ending in a question mark probably has an answer of no.

I read this as asking questions not making claims.

It was clearly a combative "question", and entirely orthogonal to the topic under discussion, which was the accuracy of the claims about the scarcity of lithium.

It would have been entirely within the guidelines of polite discussion (and the site) to point out that scarcity isn't the only deciding factor, but the OP never made any assertions to that effect.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#96
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're the one making claims its on you to provide sources. If you're just saying things and putting question marks on the end people are going to treat it the same way they treat newspaper headlines, which is to say any headline ending in a question mark probably has an answer of no.

I read this as asking questions not making claims.

As the only post of an account created less than an hour ago, I lean towards it being more likely a bad faith attempt at trolling than an honest inquiry.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The difference in their geochemistry is substantial so even if chromium isn't technically that much more abundant, it's significantly easier to mine. The Gibbs free energy of formation for chromium oxides and chromite is much more negative than for lithium-bearing minerals so Cr compounds are thermodynamically favored to precipitate out of melts and solutions, forming minerals with high concentrations that then get p…

Another difference is that chromates are wildly toxic...

Chromates are very rare in natural minerals and they’re mostly an industrial intermediate compound. Chromite is the common mineral converted to metal chromium for incorporation into alloys so the chromates are limited to the factory. Most other Cr bearing minerals contain chromium oxides.

Other industrial lithium intermediates are also toxic, as is the concentrated brine it’s often extracted from. Since it’s concentration is so low, most lithium extraction is pretty nasty.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#98
post #3

Na4MnCr(PO4)3 Chromium is 5 times more abundant than Lithium in earth crust (0.01% vs 0.002%). Better, but not that much ? "Regular" sodium-ion batteries with prussian blue has, it seems, the great advantage of not using any scarce elements. It would be nice to have a comparison between this solid state chemistry and the regular one.

The difference in their geochemistry is substantial so even if chromium isn't technically that much more abundant, it's significantly easier to mine. The Gibbs free energy of formation for chromium oxides and chromite is much more negative than for lithium-bearing minerals so Cr compounds are thermodynamically favored to precipitate out of melts and solutions, forming minerals with high concentrations that then get p…

This is now my favorite hacker news comment

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#99

Lithium has actually dropped in price by 80% over the last two years, so this part of the article is (currently) wrong: “ The lithium commonly used for batteries isn’t that common. It makes up about 20 parts per million of the Earth’s crust, compared to sodium, which makes up 20,000 parts per million. This scarcity, combined with the surge in demand for the lithium-ion batteries for laptops, phones and EVs, have sent…

Yes, and conflate "totals" with proven reserves while failing to mention that people aren't really actively looking for more reserve as aggressively. But this is a PR piece for the University for which the standard problem is to magnify both the problems it avoid as well as the impact it produces. But at its core, an anode free battery has a lot of desirable properties which make this engineer feat notable. Perhaps t…

Just a side note, most quotes I got from companies installing solar panels on my roof ranged between $3/kWh to $4/kWh.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#100
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're the one making claims its on you to provide sources. If you're just saying things and putting question marks on the end people are going to treat it the same way they treat newspaper headlines, which is to say any headline ending in a question mark probably has an answer of no.

I read this as asking questions not making claims.

With that phrasing? No way.
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