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First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

pme.uchicago.edu

61–70 of 135 posts

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#61
post #23

Doesn't tell me anything about Energy Density, Volume, or Recharge Cycle.

Research deals with theory. Not everything in research is immediately practical. Lots of engineering, tweaking, and testing goes into market-ready products. This announcement is an achievement for science, not a consumer-ready product.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chromium mining is crucial for the steel production industry because chromium is a key ingredient in the production of stainless steel. We've been hunting and mining it for a LONG time now. Stainless is important to so many preexisting industries, such as new construction, automotive, aerospace, and household appliances. Consequently, there have been shortages in the availability and mining of chromium and this has d…

Can you recover chromium from stainless steel?

Yes, through electrochemical means. It's not super energy efficient though, it'd be much better to not put it into steel in the first place if you want to make batteries out of it.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#63
post #61
post #23

Doesn't tell me anything about Energy Density, Volume, or Recharge Cycle.

Research deals with theory. Not everything in research is immediately practical. Lots of engineering, tweaking, and testing goes into market-ready products. This announcement is an achievement for science, not a consumer-ready product.

> Research deals with theory.

There is research that deals only with theory, but empirical research deals with practice, even if not always pragmatics.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#64
post #8

Lithium extraction is also environmentally damaging, whether from the … brine extraction that pumps massive amounts of water to the surface to dry. That’s a bit of a stretch. Pumping water to the surface of a dry lakebed far from most life and letting it evaporate is pretty low on the environmental impact scale from mining. I wonder how that compares to sodium extraction.

I thought the issue with evaporative brine projects was mainly the water use in generally water scarce areas. There are direct extraction technologies that are better. Sodium you can just let the ocean evaporate in ponds, although this destroys wetlands (see for example a bunch of these around the SF Bay, some being restored to their native state).

Hmm, i assume desalination could get the sodium out and also give us fresh water, maybe another incentive for desalination.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#66
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These monthly breakthrough announcements are getting annoying. Seems that "several hundred cycles" was good enough to publish this one.

Eh, we start with 100 cycles and then someone has an idea and we go to 1000 and so on. Interesting times we live in.

Even at 100 cycles it’s likely cheaper for some applications - i.e. helicopters.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#67
pretty cool...but when it comes to batteries what matters is scale and total cost. it doesnt matter if the elements are cheaper, are you introducing a product that is significantly better or cheaper that the current status quo (see the rise of LFP)?

can you use existing factories and manufacturing techniques or do you need to invent or build those. we've started hearing about solid state batteries about 15 years ago and we still dont have any at a big enough scale. if solid state batteries do takeoff it will probably takeoff first in electric aviation and supercars which can hide the cost due to a more expensive products and the need for higher density

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#68
post #55

One will hope this becomes commercially successful and the dirty process of creating and building lithium batteries goes away completely. Hope we become less dependent on China and other countries with shady labor practices (ie, child labor, minimal to no safety regulations).

Yeah I've seen too many of these overhyped academic announcements that never make it commercially because they overlooked some small but critical aspect of manufacturing. Production is HARD

Disclaimer: I really hope these batteries make it.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Chromium mining is crucial for the steel production industry because chromium is a key ingredient in the production of stainless steel. We've been hunting and mining it for a LONG time now. Stainless is important to so many preexisting industries, such as new construction, automotive, aerospace, and household appliances. Consequently, there have been shortages in the availability and mining of chromium and this has d…

Can you recover chromium from stainless steel?

We're already recycling pretty much all the steel we can, so yes, but it's already factored into the global steel supply chain.

Re: First anode-free sodium solid-state battery

#70
post #3

Na4MnCr(PO4)3 Chromium is 5 times more abundant than Lithium in earth crust (0.01% vs 0.002%). Better, but not that much ? "Regular" sodium-ion batteries with prussian blue has, it seems, the great advantage of not using any scarce elements. It would be nice to have a comparison between this solid state chemistry and the regular one.

The difference in their geochemistry is substantial so even if chromium isn't technically that much more abundant, it's significantly easier to mine. The Gibbs free energy of formation for chromium oxides and chromite is much more negative than for lithium-bearing minerals so Cr compounds are thermodynamically favored to precipitate out of melts and solutions, forming minerals with high concentrations that then get p…

This is why I've been interested in the Graphene Aluminum batteries from GMG for so long. They are producing graphene in bulk without having to mine it. Aluminum is already extremely abundant as well.

I'm very optimistic because these solve so many battery issues at the same time, heat, rapid charge, sourcing.

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