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Let's stop counting centuries

dynomight.net

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Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#381
post #2

Author makes a good point. "1700s" is both more intuitive and more concise than "18th century". The very first episode of Alex Trebeck's Jeopardy in 1984 illustrates how confusing this can be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDTxS9_CwZA The "Final Jeopardy" question simply asked on what date did the 20th century begin, and all three contestants got it wrong, leading to a 3-way tie.

Logic is in short supply and off-by-one errors are everywhere. Most people don't care. I think it's more doable to learn to just live with that than to reprogram mankind.

The publishing industry already has style guides for large swaths of the industry.

Imagine, for a moment, that AP adopted the OP's "don't count centuries" guidance. An enormous share of English-language publishing outfits would conform to the new rule in all future publications. Within a couple months, a large share of written media consumption would adopt this improved way of talking about historical time frames.

The best part? Absolutely no effort on the part of the general public. It's not like the OP is inventing new words or sentence structures. There's zero cognitive overhead for anyone, except for a handful of journalists and copywriters who are already used to that kind of thing. It's part of their job.

I think a lot of people take these sorts of ideas to mean "thou shalt consciously change the way you speak." In reality, we have the systems in place to make these changes gradually, without causing trouble for anyone.

If you don't like it, nobody's trying to police your ability to say it some other way - even if that way is objectively stupid, as is the case with counting centuries.

Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#382
post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I could give you 'ended in 1800' (I'd prefer 'at') but it very much started in 1700, not 1701.

I didn't make the convention. The 17th century started on January 1, 1701 and ended on December 31, 1800. That's because the purported year of the birth of Christ was the "first year of the lord", or AD 1, and that's when the first century started. In turn that's because at the time Latin had a word for nothing but not a word for zero, so you couldn't count years starting at zero. That also means that those old enoug…

Only American Christians say 'year of our lord' after the date, if that's what that means to you and is how you want to think of it that's fine, but be aware nobody else is doing that, even though they're working in AD/BC.

Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody's asking to reprogram anyone. Just stop using one of two conventions. The reason to do it is simple and obvious. I'm really baffled at the responses here advocating strongly for the current way. But I guess that's just a "people thing"

Asking me to stop using my preferred convention is tantamount to 'reprogramming' me.

I'm amazed you didn't even hedge by saying "telling me to", claiming that a request to shift convention is tantamount to a reprogramming is certainly a bold, provocative claim.

Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#384
post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

oooor we can slowly migrate towards sensibility as we did celsius and centimeters

Re temp, I’m glad we use F for daily life in the USA. The most common application I have for temp is to understand the weather and I like the 0-100 range for F as that’s the typical range for weather near me. For scientific work I obviously prefer kelvin. Celsius is nearly useless.

I don't see enough love for feet and inches.

A foot can be divided cleanly into 2, 3, 4, and 6. Ten is a really sucky number to base your lengths on. It only divides nicely into 2 and 5.

Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#385
post #2

Author makes a good point. "1700s" is both more intuitive and more concise than "18th century". The very first episode of Alex Trebeck's Jeopardy in 1984 illustrates how confusing this can be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDTxS9_CwZA The "Final Jeopardy" question simply asked on what date did the 20th century begin, and all three contestants got it wrong, leading to a 3-way tie.

Depends on the language. Century being 3 syllables really makes it long in English, but it's still 5 syllables vs 5 syllables.

In Polish: [lata] tysiącsiedemsetne (6 [+2] syllables) vs osiemnasty wiek (5 syllables).

Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#386
post #2

Author makes a good point. "1700s" is both more intuitive and more concise than "18th century". The very first episode of Alex Trebeck's Jeopardy in 1984 illustrates how confusing this can be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDTxS9_CwZA The "Final Jeopardy" question simply asked on what date did the 20th century begin, and all three contestants got it wrong, leading to a 3-way tie.

Logic is in short supply and off-by-one errors are everywhere. Most people don't care. I think it's more doable to learn to just live with that than to reprogram mankind.

You just made me realize that the common saying “the eleventh hour” isn’t what anyone thinks it is

Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#387
post #2

Author makes a good point. "1700s" is both more intuitive and more concise than "18th century". The very first episode of Alex Trebeck's Jeopardy in 1984 illustrates how confusing this can be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDTxS9_CwZA The "Final Jeopardy" question simply asked on what date did the 20th century begin, and all three contestants got it wrong, leading to a 3-way tie.

On the other hand "1700s art" sounds like trash compared to "18th century art".

[deleted]

Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re temp, I’m glad we use F for daily life in the USA. The most common application I have for temp is to understand the weather and I like the 0-100 range for F as that’s the typical range for weather near me. For scientific work I obviously prefer kelvin. Celsius is nearly useless.

I agree. For ambient temp, F is twice as accurate in the same number of digits. It also reflects human experience better; 100F is damn hot, and 0F is damn cold. Celsius is for chemists.

The difference between -1 C and +1 C is VASTLY more important in daily life than the difference between 26.5 and 27 C.

Farmers, drivers, people with gardens need to know if it will get subzero at night.

Nobody cares if it's 26.5 C or 26 C.

Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#389
post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At sea level, yes :) I do agree, though I live in Europe and C is the norm. I could never wrap my head around F. That said, I think 0 is more important in daily life, below or above freezing. How much is that in F again?

As a dweller of a cold place in the USA, F is pretty handy because "freezing" isn't terribly cold. Having 0F be "actually quite seriously cold" is useful.

My parents care a lot about "przymrozek" - which is when it gets sub-zero C at night and you need to cover the plants and close the greenhouse doors and put a heater there so the plants survive. They give warnings in radio when this happen outside of regular winter months.

There's also special warning for drivers if it was sub-zero because then the water on the roads freezes and it's very hard to break.

I'd say it's way more important a distinction than anything that F makes obvious.

Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not learn it anyway. Broader 'bildung' is a lifelong pursuit.

I’m from working class England and that’s absolutely not the culture for us. Education is considered superfluous unless it makes you money

Right, and I'm from a (partly) academic family. I guess it's a culture/class thing too.
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