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DevOps Isn't Dead, but It's Not in Great Health Either

thenewstack.io

21–30 of 74 posts

Re: DevOps Isn't Dead, but It's Not in Great Health Either

#21
"The report’s authors speculate that “It may be that the ubiquity of DevOps practices has allowed developers and organizations to increase the complexity of projects they are involved in, counteracting the benefits to development velocity. In other words, DevOps practices have likely made the development velocity of complex projects comparable to simpler projects without DevOps practices.”

So.. in other words - DevOps is in great health.

As a nit, that would not be "counteracting the benefits to development velocity". It would be increasing it for those complex use cases. It might be lowering the poorly used statistical average, but that is more of a 'you' problem from using exceptionally poor statistical practices.

I always find these broad 'Something is not dead yet but dying' articles to be of very low overall content value. They far too often depend of either highly anecdotal information, or even worse conclusions based on widespread data averages. Even worse than that, self reported AND self selected data.

Re: DevOps Isn't Dead, but It's Not in Great Health Either

#22
DevOps has different meanings to different organizations. Just by skimming over the comments here the problem becomes obvious. For some it is basically a platform integration team that assist product teams for what they call devops, for others they confuse it as a modern sysadmin role and for others like product developers they confuse being on-call "24x7" as some kind of devops principles. It's a heavily abused term, even as we have a common industry definition which is grounded on scientific methods, all of the above examples are still common misconceptions about devops.

Re: DevOps Isn't Dead, but It's Not in Great Health Either

#23
Companies do what they always do. It isn't the first time a organization sees something trendy, say that they adopt it and just renames their old processes to with what is trendy and doesn't change one damn thing. It happened with agile and it is happening with DevOps. These poor performers are most likely doing ops in a traditional way they just adopted the vernacular of modern practices and claiming it doesn't work.

The core of DevOps and agile is essentially tightening the feedback loops and using the feedback to adjust to become more efficient. "Oh we are failing deploys" and not figuring out why to adjust well that isn't DevOps. Not figuring out why you don't deliver what you promise isn't agile either.

Re: DevOps Isn't Dead, but It's Not in Great Health Either

#24
post #13
post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, dunno what to call it ... but every new concept starts out good, gets crazier and crazier and sometimes it may become good again, but most of the time it just devolves into more crazy. In one of the orgs I worked, ther was a team which worked on the basic devops framework which the application teams could use to then configure their resources. It was a very sane approach.

Nah, it works like this: - we get a new methodology by remarkable ppl who can make it work really well - some managers/consultants decide to modify it, twist it, with reasoning that „its hard to do well” - the initial thing is lost in translation, twisted and bent to sell better by consultants or fit nonfunctional corps Agile, DevOps, Software Craftsmanship, testing methodologies all did share the same fate. Issue is…

Yup, it's a cycle. Take "agile", for example.

Kent Beck (of "Extreme Programming" aka "XP" fame) is a joy to read. He thinks really deeply about software, and takes things to interesting extremes. But he's very pragmatic about it.

Then XP becomes the Agile Manifesto. At this point, we're getting a bit silly but it's still an interesting idea.

Then we start talking about paid "agile" consultants teaching big companies. Maybe it's still better than the alternative. And some of the best ideas, like unit testing, seep into the culture. (80s and 90s project planning and testing could be terrible in ways any undergrad could fix today.)

And then, eventually, we have so-called "Scrum" being run by someone who learned about it third hand through a game of telephone. Every truly successful revolution lives long enough to become a gross and broken status quo. And so the cycle repeats.

That said, Kent Beck is still writing, and he's still delightful to read. I knew his favorite themes 20 years ago, but sometimes I pick up his stuff and find a clever new insight.

Re: DevOps Isn't Dead, but It's Not in Great Health Either

#25
post #22

DevOps has different meanings to different organizations. Just by skimming over the comments here the problem becomes obvious. For some it is basically a platform integration team that assist product teams for what they call devops, for others they confuse it as a modern sysadmin role and for others like product developers they confuse being on-call "24x7" as some kind of devops principles. It's a heavily abused term…

Ten thousand organizations the world over have ten thousand problems. One person with a shinny resume and big corp names on it will come out and publish some manifesto about how they figure one problem out at one very particular company. Because that particular company becomes one of the top 10 worldwide, ten thousand companies will try to claim they do it to by throwing some job titles around. People realize it's bunk and search for the next silver bullet.

Brooks warned us about seeking simple solutions to complex endeavors' problems nearly 40 years ago.

Re: DevOps Isn't Dead, but It's Not in Great Health Either

#26
post #22

DevOps has different meanings to different organizations. Just by skimming over the comments here the problem becomes obvious. For some it is basically a platform integration team that assist product teams for what they call devops, for others they confuse it as a modern sysadmin role and for others like product developers they confuse being on-call "24x7" as some kind of devops principles. It's a heavily abused term…

> a modern sysadmin role

As a sysadmin, I feel attacked. DevOps is not a modern used version of the sysadmin. It's a different shade with different expertise to apply to a slightly different field that what a sysadmin does. I've seen devoperators who don't know how to manage a server and I've seen sysadmins who don't know how to write scripts. One is not more modern or superior than the other.

Re: DevOps Isn't Dead, but It's Not in Great Health Either

#27
post #22

DevOps has different meanings to different organizations. Just by skimming over the comments here the problem becomes obvious. For some it is basically a platform integration team that assist product teams for what they call devops, for others they confuse it as a modern sysadmin role and for others like product developers they confuse being on-call "24x7" as some kind of devops principles. It's a heavily abused term…

> even as we have a common industry definition which is grounded on scientific methods

there's hardly anything scientific about devops, it's all about culture and people

Re: DevOps Isn't Dead, but It's Not in Great Health Either

#28
post #7
post #2

DevOps like Agile was a beautiful idea with a coherent underlying well reasoned philosophy. DevOps like Agile was then hacked to pieces and had its corpse paraded around by sleazy consultants and idiotic management that was told "you can save all this money on all your infrastructure people by making your developers do all the ops stuff to." And who doesn't like saving money on those useless crusty old system adminis…

To me, agile is simply People over process Results over bluster Flexibility over rigidity

Which is painfully ironic, because as soon as somewhere starts 'doing agile' it's all about the (scrum) process, bluster abounds, and everything is in pretty rigid sprints, scope changes to be avoided, etc.

Re: DevOps Isn't Dead, but It's Not in Great Health Either

#29
Adopting a DevOps culture is usually very difficult at sales-driven orgs, most of which fallaciously call themselves product-driven orgs. Mostly because PMs see it as a cost rather than an investment, and their sole goal is for devs to ship an incremental ball of crap.

The only times I've seen DevOps succeed was when it was supported by very senior engineers who were allowed to ignore product people's antics and implement it anyway, and when engineers keen on DevOps inflated their estimates to make room for that kind of work, particularly the initial research and yak shaving.

Imo, DevOps isn't in great health because the industry isn't in great health, and most non wealthy tech companies are doing panic-driven and FOMO-driven development.

Re: DevOps Isn't Dead, but It's Not in Great Health Either

#30

I like DevOps, I don't like being on call 24x7 so I tell my clients I am a software developer not an ops. DevOps was sold as a way to avoid dev and ops teams blaming each other for not shipping software. It was at the time true that devs did not understand hardware and networking and ops did not particularly understand software. We got nice things like Docker and k8s, but the core issues have not gone away, devs don'…

> ops are an almost extinct species.

This is infuriating at times. We ingest a lot of data from 3rd party systems of our clients for things like KPI analysis, the devs¹ provided various APIs for submitting data and we can read from various others, but good old reliable dumping-CSV-files-to-us-via-SFTP is still what most clients want to do.

I have no problem with this², BUT the amount of times I end up talking to clients (sometimes large banking organisations) that don't have anyone available who actually understands SFTP/SSH amazes me. We often resort to password based auth because they simply don't get private/public keys (or claim their other infrastructure just doesn't work with them).

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[1] used to be a full-stacker myself, but I've let large parts of my skillset rot so except for when working on legacy issues I'm a more specialised database/data-processing/infrastructure fellow these days

[2] other than, of course, dealing with bad CSV output implementations⁴ or just all the combinations of how to encode problems like quotes, eols in long stings, and so forth. JSON³ is starting to get some traction as an alternative which is handy because being more modern it is more rigidly designed compared to the mess that CSV is due to decades of implementations being slapped together in an it'll-do-until-it-doesn't manner.

[3] Don't expect structured data though: the clients & 3rd parties I deal with are sending the same simple table format data, with multiple files for us to join together later when there is more complex structure, that they would send as CSV, just using the more bloated format⁵ for the gain in reduced encoding confusions.

[4] not quoting values containing the separator character or otherwise escaping it, not dealing with existing quotes when values do get quoted, etc. - if you'd be surprised to find CSV is far from a solved problem today, then prepare to be very surprised!

[5] Don't get me wrong when I mention the format bloat: this _is_ a good trade for easing the other issues. Bandwidth & storage (or compute resource for compression) are more than cheap & fast enough to make it so.

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