Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation

skeptic.org.uk

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

131–140 of 172 posts

Re: Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation

#131

Post by vikramkr »

pdonis wrote: post #129
vikramkr wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pseudoephedrine - you can't buy that because the DEA has a problem with it lol. and you can buy the other stuff as reagents/third party suppliers etc, for 'research' use.

> pseudoephedrine - you can't buy that because the DEA has a problem with it lol Ok. (Though there is still the question of whether it actualy makes sense for the DEA to care.) How about commonly used antibiotics? > you can buy the other stuff as reagents/third party suppliers etc, for 'research' use. Antibiotics? Please enlighten me.

for cell culture lol it's not hard to find them, even though arguably it should be because of resistance. Also this isn't advice to take them - they aren't regulated and so you shouldn't trust them lol they're for research use only for a reason

Re: Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation

#132

Post by blendergeek »

evilduck wrote: post #94
blendergeek wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the homeopathic remedies don't harm anyone (I know that some have, this comment only references the remedies that don't), what is the problem with them being sold and used? Many cold medicines have side effects, some are even abused recreationaly. Given that human bodies tend to recover with or without cold medicine (and given the shaky legs that Phenylephrine stands on), what is the issue with people using "fake…

Why not just prescribe a crystal and some essential oils instead? Maybe have them sacrifice a chicken tomorrow evening at dusk? Actually, if they send me $400 in Bitcoin I will simply cure them with the power of prayer. Nobody is making meth off of my well wishes either.

Why a prescription? If the patient can get a placebo fix without a prescription, isn't that better?

Of course having a "healer" present with a "prescription" may make people feel better. So maybe prescribing crystals is better than pharmacy homeopathic remedies.

However, none of this needs to cost $400. Given that these are all placebos, they should cheap and safe.

Re: Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation

#133

Post by blendergeek »

blincoln wrote: post #98
blendergeek wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The choice is over the counter cold medicine vs homeopathic "remedies". Neither of these cure diseases. Neither of these prevent the seeking of medical care. Both of them may make people feel better (the placebo effect can be powerful). Only one of these is frequently abused by teenagers as a recreational drug.

There are plenty of people who take homeopathic and other alternative products instead of prescription products because they can't afford the prescription products, and fraudulent advertising makes them think the alternative is more or less equivalent. I actually had someone at a pet store try to sell me homeopathic medication instead of dewormer because they were out of actual dewormer. Do you think that's harmless…

I'm only advocating for homeopathic cold medicine. Real cold medicine does not cure the common cold and does have harmful side effects.

Your examples are cases where homeopathic remedies should not be marketed beside real medicine.

Re: Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation

#134

Post by kergonath »

gumby wrote: post #10

If homeopathy "theory" says that the water retains an "imprint" of other chemicals it encountered, clearly the tap water coming into your house is horribly contaminated with the fish pee, ozone (from UV purification treatment) and the pipes themselves. I briefly considered selling a device that would "reverse" those consequences so the water from your tap would be homeopathically neutralized. But it just seemed uneth…

> I briefly considered selling a device that would "reverse" those consequences so the water from your tap would be homeopathically neutralized. But it just seemed unethical to take advantage of the poorly educated.

You can rest assured that other people definitely did and indeed are still doing it. Ask me how I know.

(A couple of late-night rabbit holes, of course. From positive crystals you’re supposed to put in a water filter to magic pots that turn dead, sterilised water into the pure, living good stuff. The Internet can be very depressing).

Re: Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation

#135

Post by kergonath »

gumby wrote: post #119
samus wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Such devices are indeed already on the market. They are fancy water filters, nothing more, nothing less.

I should have guessed. Of course the water picks up the imprint of the filters. My device would use magnets! Moving magnets so it doesn't bias the water.

Do not ever try putting something like “magnet water purifier” in Google, then. Or, if your results make too much sense, just add some bullshit like “crystals”. You’d be disappointed to learn that about 54,017 charlatans beat you to the punch. Some of them even got some articles in something that looks like a peer-reviewed journal…

Re: Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation

#136

Post by gumby »

rc_mob wrote: post #27
gumby wrote: post #10

If homeopathy "theory" says that the water retains an "imprint" of other chemicals it encountered, clearly the tap water coming into your house is horribly contaminated with the fish pee, ozone (from UV purification treatment) and the pipes themselves. I briefly considered selling a device that would "reverse" those consequences so the water from your tap would be homeopathically neutralized. But it just seemed uneth…

There are all sorts of homeopathy theories depending on who you talk to and what day of the week it is.

Oh goody I can sell seven models, one for each day of the week!

Re: Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation

#137

Post by jjmarr »

vog wrote: post #50
pizza234 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They're even covered by some insurance plans. A friend of mine is an orthopedic surgeon, and they explained to me that for mild problems, which would normally heal on their own, it's cheaper to cover a placebo rather than real medication.

While I hear this argumentation a lot, I still struggle with this: If you have "mild problems, which would normally heal on their own", buying no medication at all would be even cheaper. And from an ethical point of view, the idea of financing a whole (homeopathic) industry that uses your money to produce fake science, even with a single cent, should make one shudder, shouldn't it?

> If you have "mild problems, which would normally heal on their own", buying no medication at all would be even cheaper.

American culture loathes the idea of not treating a disease. Problems are expected to be dealt with, even if it harms society (see overprescribing antibiotics or opioids).

When confronted with people that don't understand the impacts of medicine, it's easier for an insurance company to give them fake medication than nothing at all.

Re: Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation

#138

Post by cbsmith »

gumby wrote: post #10

If homeopathy "theory" says that the water retains an "imprint" of other chemicals it encountered, clearly the tap water coming into your house is horribly contaminated with the fish pee, ozone (from UV purification treatment) and the pipes themselves. I briefly considered selling a device that would "reverse" those consequences so the water from your tap would be homeopathically neutralized. But it just seemed uneth…

You say that like fish pee isn't good for you.

Re: Research into homeopathy: data falsification, fabrication and manipulation

#139

Post by cbsmith »

sgerenser wrote: post #29
pixelpoet wrote: post #2

I wish more German doctors would acknowledge what utter quackery homeopathy is. Three separate doctors wanted to prescribe me homeopathy stuff last year, ended up not getting any help at all.

In the U.S., sometimes a medicine is marked as “homeopathic” just to avoid regulation, and actually does contain a real active ingredient. This is the case with zinc lozenges (for colds), which contain an actual therapeutic dose of zinc but are presumably marketed as “homeopathic” since the FDA doesn’t regulate herbal or homeopathic “treatments.” Not sure if anything like that happens in Germany as well though.

Yup. Our doctor recommended "homeopathic" medicine that was actually pretty standard treatment.
Post reply on HN