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Let's stop counting centuries

dynomight.net

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Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#81

It's easy, we should have simply started counting centuries from zero. Centuries should be zero-indexed, then everything works. We do the same with people's ages. For the entire initial year of your life you were zero years old. Likewise, from years 0-99, zero centuries had passed so we should call it the zeroth century! At least this is how I justify to my students that zero-indexing makes sense. Everyone's fought t…

We don't 0-index people's ages. There are a million books about "baby's first year", while they're still 0 years old.

Except we do, as soon as we need the next digit.

In "figure of speech", or conventual use, people start drinking in their 21st year, not their 22nd. In common parlance, they can vote in their 18th year, not their 19th.

We talk of a child in their 10th year as being age 10. Might even be younger. Try asking a people if advice about a child in their "5th year of development" means you're dealing with a 5 year old. Most will say yes.

So perhaps it's logical to count from zero when there's no digit in the magnitude place, because you haven't achieved a full unit till you reach the need for the unit. Arguably a baby at 9 months isn't in their first year as they've experienced zero years yet!

Similarly "centuries" don't have a century digit until the 100s, which would make that the 1st century and just call time spans less than that "in the first hundred years" (same syllables anyway).

It's unsatisfying, but solves the off by one errors, one of the two hardest problems in computer science along with caching and naming things.

Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#82
I agree. Another good point to get rid of counting centuries would be that in some languages (Russian) centuries are written in Roman numerals. It's annoying having to pause and think of conversion.

Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#83
post #2

Author makes a good point. "1700s" is both more intuitive and more concise than "18th century". The very first episode of Alex Trebeck's Jeopardy in 1984 illustrates how confusing this can be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDTxS9_CwZA The "Final Jeopardy" question simply asked on what date did the 20th century begin, and all three contestants got it wrong, leading to a 3-way tie.

On the other hand "1700s art" sounds like trash compared to "18th century art".

How about if you say "settecento"? Maybe it is a new confusion that they drop a thousand years, and maybe it would imply Italian art specifically.

Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#84
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We do the same with people's ages. No, we don't. When we refer to 'the first year of life', we mean the time from birth until you turn 1. Similarly, you'd say something like 'you're a child in the first decade of your life and slowly start to mature into a young adult by the end of the second decade', referring to 0-9 and 10-19, respectively.

> No, we don't. But practically speaking we usually do. I always hear people refer to events in their life happening “when I was 26” and never “in the 27th year of my life”. Sure you could say the latter, but practically speaking people don’t (at least in English).

That's not really indexing from 0 though. It's just rounding the amount of time you've lived down to the nearest year. You get the same number, but semantically you're saying roughly how old you are, not which year you're in. This becomes obvious when you talk to small children, who tend to insist on saying e.g "I'm 4 and a half". And talking about children in their first year, no one says they're 0. They say they're n days/weeks/months old.

Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#85
post #2

Author makes a good point. "1700s" is both more intuitive and more concise than "18th century". The very first episode of Alex Trebeck's Jeopardy in 1984 illustrates how confusing this can be: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDTxS9_CwZA The "Final Jeopardy" question simply asked on what date did the 20th century begin, and all three contestants got it wrong, leading to a 3-way tie.

On the other hand "1700s art" sounds like trash compared to "18th century art".

If using “1700s”, I’d write it as “art of the 1700s”.

Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#86
post #45

It's easy, we should have simply started counting centuries from zero. Centuries should be zero-indexed, then everything works. We do the same with people's ages. For the entire initial year of your life you were zero years old. Likewise, from years 0-99, zero centuries had passed so we should call it the zeroth century! At least this is how I justify to my students that zero-indexing makes sense. Everyone's fought t…

> we should have simply started counting centuries from zero Latin, like Lua, is 1-indexed.

I feel like the Romans had an excuse for that mistake. Not sure about Lua.

Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#87

> Did the American revolution happen before, during, or after the Enlightenment? I’ve no idea. When did the American revolution happen? Not everyone’s cultural frame of reference is the same as yours. I can tell you when the Synod of Whitby happened, though.

The American and French Revolutions are a pretty big deal on the road to modern democracy, as well as being tied to 1700s Enlightenment ideals. Everyone educated should know this.

A pretty big deal in America. I don't think knowledge of the exact date of the American Revolution is a requirement for education outside America. At least no more than "17something...ish".

Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We do the same with people's ages. No, we don't. When we refer to 'the first year of life', we mean the time from birth until you turn 1. Similarly, you'd say something like 'you're a child in the first decade of your life and slowly start to mature into a young adult by the end of the second decade', referring to 0-9 and 10-19, respectively.

On your sixth birthday we put a big 5 on your cake and call you a 5 year old all year. Can't say I've ever had to refer to someone's first year or first decade of their life, but sure I'd do that if it came up. Meanwhile, 0-indexed age comes up all the time.

> On your sixth birthday we put a big 5 on your cake and call you a 5 year old all year.

If you are going to be that pedantic, I would point out that one only has one birthday.

(Well, unless one's mother is extremely unlucky.)

Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American and French Revolutions are a pretty big deal on the road to modern democracy, as well as being tied to 1700s Enlightenment ideals. Everyone educated should know this.

A pretty big deal in America . I don't think knowledge of the exact date of the American Revolution is a requirement for education outside America. At least no more than "17something...ish".

"17something...ish" is enough to answer (or at least make a high confidence guess at) the original question (was the American Revolution contemporary with the enlightenment?)

Re: Let's stop counting centuries

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American and French Revolutions are a pretty big deal on the road to modern democracy, as well as being tied to 1700s Enlightenment ideals. Everyone educated should know this.

A pretty big deal in America . I don't think knowledge of the exact date of the American Revolution is a requirement for education outside America. At least no more than "17something...ish".

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