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Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

eurasiantimes.com

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Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#111

Post by TheLoafOfBread »

medo-bear wrote: post #83
jfengel wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we could have avoided it. Maybe not. It's wishful thinking to say "All we had to do was give them what they wanted." I'll skip the tired historical comparison, but just point out that we can't know the counterfactual. I certainly do not deny American entitlement and exceptionalism, and I think it's a massive mistake on our part. But nobody in the US (or Europe) has any designs on Russian territory. Our mistake…

[flagged]

> Russian territory is stupendously rich in vital natural resources

If space industry will get going in next 50 years, then this is going to be completely irrelevant.

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#112

Post by jncfhnb »

dmix wrote: post #98
jncfhnb wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Very little evidence of these being used to any effect comparable to ATACMs

Then you haven't been following the war closely. I watch combat videos daily and Iskander is easily their most potent weapon after Lancet drones (and artillery). Patriot can't cover the whole massive frontlines.

The iskander and lancet drones are absolutely not used to nearly the same efficacy as atacms. Those things are regularly just hurled at low value civilian targets in large part because of poor targeting. They’re generally not the road mobile variety either.

The most potent weapon in their arsenal right now in terms of battlefield value are their helicopters and glide bombs

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#114

Post by lawn »

lkasr wrote: post #94
lawn wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Taken to the extreme, you can then also not trust the free world. Reuters also cites the Russian sources: Of course, not all free media is competent and Reuters is making the exact same mistake of blindly citing Russian sources without doing due diligence.

What would due diligence look like? Instead of sniping at comments, please link the correct approved journalistic version of the 5 ATACMS missiles that have or have not been shot down over Crimea. If the whole attack, including the beach incident, was staged, link to that.

> please link the correct approved journalistic version of the 5 ATACMS missiles that have or have not been shot down over Crimea.

As far as I know, there isn't one. The only thing we have is Russian sources, which by their track-record is only fairy tail propaganda.

Republishing such a story is not due diligence. Doing their own research would be.

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#115

Post by JohnBooty »

medo-bear wrote: post #83
jfengel wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we could have avoided it. Maybe not. It's wishful thinking to say "All we had to do was give them what they wanted." I'll skip the tired historical comparison, but just point out that we can't know the counterfactual. I certainly do not deny American entitlement and exceptionalism, and I think it's a massive mistake on our part. But nobody in the US (or Europe) has any designs on Russian territory. Our mistake…

[flagged]

Russia will always have an adversarial relationship with Europe. Russia is huge. Its borders are essentially indefensible and (justly or not) it will always be insecure about its own territorial integrity unless it controls the countries around it as buffer states.

    Russian territory is stupendously rich in 
    vital natural resources, to the extent that 
    sooner or later it will become a super power 
    just on this account alone.
So why hasn't this happened yet?

Russia is resource-rich but sparse. There are riches in the ground, but everything is 1,000km from everything else. This makes it hard to transport goods and also hard to have a prosperous middle class outside of Moscow or a few other cities.

Also, considering what has gone on with Russian natural gas, many countries don't exactly love the idea of relying on Russia for crucial resources.

Russia also has poor farmland and can't feed itself easily without grain from places like Ukraine. Maybe after 50 years of global warming some tundra will thaw and then they can grow wheat in Siberia.

I'm not exactly "blaming" Russia here. Russia's territorial concerns are, well... hey... you know, the Cold War really happened, and the wounds are still there. Both sides.

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#116

Post by JohnBooty »

kibwen wrote: post #13

You'd have to be either a liar or a fool to publicly admit that you've deciphered something about your opponent's secret capabilities. The allies didn't go bragging to the Nazis every time that they broke the enigma machine.

It's kind of a cliche, but it's a cliche for a reason.

USSR/Russia has always loudly overstated the capabilities of its military and military hardware.

The US tends to stay mum about the capabilities of its hardware and when it talks about them, it tends to understate.

Even when the F-22 shot down that Chinese balloon (a hilarious use of cutting-edge air power) it was more impressive than it might have seemed at first glance. For years the claimed ceiling of the F-22 was 50,000 feet. But then they mentioned that it shot the balloon down from a height of 58,000 feet. Now the Wikipedia article (after years of edit fights) seems to have settled on 65,000 feel and the official USAF page says "above 50,000 feet". Maybe a trivial example but kind of representative.

(Don't get me wrong, the US "flexes" military might in other gaudy ways. I'm not saying we are humble and Russia is not. It's just funny how the two countries go about it differently....)

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#117

Post by justin66 »

TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #108
justin66 wrote: post #51

This far along into the war, their personnel have already figured out how to engage ATACMS with the S-300 and S-400 (although recent losses of S-400 units to ATACMS show they aren't doing really well at it [0] ). We already know they're jamming GPS and ATACMS is still getting through with inertial guidance. Maybe some of this newfound knowledge will benefit their engineers somehow when designing new weapons, but it's…

Here is direct link on drone video of S400 destruction using ATACMS. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1czed3k/stri...

Was there a radar on that site or did they destroy a bunch of launchers that had already fired? (not sure I understand what I'm watching)

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#118

Post by TheLoafOfBread »

justin66 wrote: post #117
TheLoafOfBread wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here is direct link on drone video of S400 destruction using ATACMS. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/1czed3k/stri...

Was there a radar on that site or did they destroy a bunch of launchers that had already fired? (not sure I understand what I'm watching)

Very likely radar is in the middle of the launchers, from comments:

S-300/400 TEL have to stay close to the Radar for mainly two reasons.

The Radar vehicle also has the generator supplying the TELs with electricity.

and the even more important reason is that the radar data can only be transmited over a short distance so if the TEL is too far out it can't get data from the Radar anymore.

Edit: max range for a S-300 is 120m between the TELs and the Radar and since the S-400 is actually just a S-300PM3 its probably the same or at least very similar

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#119

Post by dmix »

jncfhnb wrote: post #112
dmix wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you haven't been following the war closely. I watch combat videos daily and Iskander is easily their most potent weapon after Lancet drones (and artillery). Patriot can't cover the whole massive frontlines.

The iskander and lancet drones are absolutely not used to nearly the same efficacy as atacms. Those things are regularly just hurled at low value civilian targets in large part because of poor targeting. They’re generally not the road mobile variety either. The most potent weapon in their arsenal right now in terms of battlefield value are their helicopters and glide bombs

You seem to have a narrow information bubble. I've some a large number of effective Iskander strikes. The only reason it's not pumping out only A-tier videos like ATACMS is because Patriot defends the most important assets and S-400 (or their staff) is a paper tiger that can't handle a maneuverable ballistic missile. But that hasn't stopped it from dealing some important blows and being a very valuable weapon.

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#120

Post by galkk »

simion314 wrote: post #97
galkk wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My point is that if defecting in a tank though frontline is possible, finding means to move a rocket will be even easier

>My point is that if defecting in a tank though frontline is possible, finding means to move a rocket will be even easier Really, but you also failed the imagination test on how to do it. AFAIK this is all Ruzzian propaganda for idiots int he West, same idiots that believe Zelenksy bought a new mansion and sports car this week or that Macron and Obama's Wives are men. I am sure it is much easier to grab rocket secret…

Your entire post has nothing to do with mine.
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