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Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

eurasiantimes.com

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Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#81

Post by lawn »

mrtacy wrote: post #61
lawn wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As usual, everything is completely unclear Its only completely unclear if you think that the words of a dictatorship is equally trustworthy as a democracy plus the journalism of the rest of the free world.

Taken to the extreme, you can then also not trust the free world. Reuters also cites the Russian sources: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-accuses-kyiv-usi... So either Russia shot down 4 of the 5 missiles and they landed in apartment buildings, or the one that landed on the beach was also shot down. Or they staged everything, including blowing up apartment buildings. Unlikely, since Defense Secretary Aust…

> Taken to the extreme, you can then also not trust the free world. Reuters also cites the Russian sources:

Of course, not all free media is competent and Reuters is making the exact same mistake of blindly citing Russian sources without doing due diligence.

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#82

Post by ceejayoz »

themgt wrote: post #77
justin66 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they breathlessly announced they were dismantling one of our howitzers, we'd joke about them being 60 years behind. It doesn't mean those howitzers aren't useful weapons, but...

Probably because you can't GPS jam a dumb artillery shell. otoh: US-made weapons augmented by Global Positioning System (GPS) satellites for position updates in Ukraine are now susceptible to Russian electronic warfare (EW) jamming ... The weapons affected may include the 155mm Excalibur artillery projectiles, Ground Launched Small Diameter Bomb (GLSDB), Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) and weapons rounds used wit…

> Being able to test GPS jamming techniques against intact munitions isn't some hypothetical academic problem.

The US military-industrial complex is probably extremely grateful for the chance to do the same, here. Very useful if there's ever a direct conflict.

Excalibur, GLSDB, JDAM, and ATACMS all have GPS-aided inertial guidance and can be set to fall back to just inertial; the US has long been aware of the likelihood of GPS jamming in a hot war, and certainly plans to employ the same sort of jamming themselves against potential enemies.

I fully expect there's a lot of work being done on cheap anti-jammer drones that home in on a jammer's signal; it's like a big "come get me!" signal. We already have HARM missiles for radar for a similar purpose.

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#83

Post by medo-bear »

jfengel wrote: post #63
medo-bear wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Maybe we could have avoided it. Maybe not. It's wishful thinking to say "All we had to do was give them what they wanted." I'll skip the tired historical comparison, but just point out that we can't know the counterfactual. I certainly do not deny American entitlement and exceptionalism, and I think it's a massive mistake on our part. But nobody in the US (or Europe) has any designs on Russian territory. Our mistake…

[flagged]

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#84

Post by dekhn »

rvschuilenburg wrote: post #71
idaseing wrote: post #47

Russians: How is it possible that this missile can track its location anywhere? Sir, we’ve found it uses GPS. Wow, we never would have guessed that. Sneaky Americans. Now that we know their secret, we can defeat them!

The missile knows where it is at all times. It knows this because it knows where it isn't. By subtracting where it is from where it isn't, or where it isn't from where it is - whichever is greater - it obtains a difference or deviation. The guidance subsystem uses deviations to generate corrective commands to drive the missile from a position where it is to a position where it isn't, and arriving at a position that i…

Not helpful. From https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/the-missile-knows-where-it-is

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#85

Post by pydry »

onemoresoop wrote: post #42
pydry wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Completely lost on whose side?

Probably the side that is expanding conscription and routinely kidnapping men off the street and throwing them onto the front lines with weeks or less of training.

Thats something that either happens routinely if youre desperate and short of men or doesnt - because it's deeply unpopular and you wouldnt do it if you didnt have to.

There are many signals which lack meaning (e.g. land taken) or can be fudged (e.g. casualties) but there are some signs of weakness like this one which can't be bullshitted or concealed.

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#86

Post by squidbeak »

paganel wrote: post #75
ceejayoz wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do people in the US genuinely believe that? Yes, we fairly reasonably believe that Russia's struggle to make progress against a smaller neighbor using NATO hand-me-downs is heavily indicative of how they'd do against all of NATO using B-2s, F-22s and F-35s.

Interesting. As a direct neighbor of Ukraine this hybris doesn’t sit all that well to me, but it is good to know, regardless.

It isn't hubris. Before the invasion western analysts were misled into believing Russian capabilities had or were near parity with modern western systems - one of the factors in the widespread assumption in western capitals on Feb 24, 2022 that Ukraine would fall in days. But Russian systems have mostly performed poorly in this war. Meanwhile Western systems have proven highly capable in all recent wars.

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#87

Post by squidbeak »

paganel wrote: post #56
jncfhnb wrote: post #2

Dang they’re only 30 years behind us now.

Do people in the US genuinely believe that? Makes me think of that the Germans thought of the Soviets before June of 1941.

It's worth noting, before 1941 the United States hadn't begun its lend-lease program to the Russia military, which was a major factor in its later success. Without it the German assessment would likely have proven correct.

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#88

Post by pydry »

Arnt wrote: post #57
onemoresoop wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely lost on whose side?

Not going to say "lost", myself, but Russia looks oddly weak. It's the country that planned the fight in advance and could stock up, yet is buying from Iran and North Korea and AFAICT its own latest tank model still hasn't even been used once. It's the country that has a large air force and is using waves of untrained infantry attacks instead of air power. It's the country with the larger population yet recruiting me…

[flagged]

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#89

Post by galkk »

simion314 wrote: post #62
galkk wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about tank? https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-soldier-defect-steal-tank-r... .

Ruzzia already has soviet tanks, and a Russian stole an helicopter and defected. But my imagination fails me to see how a soldiers is smuggling a missile, it won't fit in his pockets/ass and he can't ride it to Kremlin and they must be some good kilometers behind the font lines. so tell me how you imagine this happening ?

My point is that if defecting in a tank though frontline is possible, finding means to move a rocket will be even easier

Re: Russia Claims Breakthrough With ATACMS

#90

Post by galkk »

ben_w wrote: post #29
galkk wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about tank? https://www.newsweek.com/ukraine-soldier-defect-steal-tank-r... .

Given how many tanks Ukrainian farmers stole from Russian soldiers, this would not surprise me greatly. That said, the end of the first paragraph is "Russian state media reported on Thursday" — even after the ink is dry on the ultimate settlement of the peace negotiations that have not yet started, we won't know for sure how many stories like this are propaganda.

Bruh. The point of my answer was that there are sure ways to move something across front lines, if necessary

> Given how many tanks Ukrainian farmers stole from Russian soldiers, this would not surprise me greatly.

How many though?

> we won't know for sure how many stories like this are propaganda.

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