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The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

kitze.io

281–290 of 316 posts

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#281

There's massive caveat with all of these "and then the story ends because we didn't just ship it :(" stories: sometimes the value of the "app" you're working on is in the technical details that cannot really be "hastened" and you can't "just ship it". Also, and this is something a lot of the managerial class people don't want to hear: Your job as a sw engineer/architect is to resist the "just ship it" pressure from t…

> It's worth repeating: Unless you have a stake in the company, it is NOT your job to make sure the company is the most profitable it can be. Your job is to create great software This is a terrible take, and one I generally see as a signal of lack of seniority in a software dev. It is absolutely everybody's job in the company to make sure it is profitable, unless you work for a non-profit. The thing is though, that p…

> This is a terrible take, and one I generally see as a signal of lack of seniority in a software dev. It is absolutely everybody's job in the company to make sure it is profitable, unless you work for a non-profit.

There's a third and even more common option: seniors who really could care less about either

Who do you think is more likely to be lying? The person who claims to care about the bottom line or the person who claims to care about code quality? From my experience the former is almost always a bullshitter

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A guy I used to work with said he worked for a company where all queries had to get approved by one of two full time DBAs - apparently with good reason as someone tried to modify a query that would have joined with half the rows in some gigantic table.

I worked at a place where only certain teams with a dedicated DBA were trusted to write direct queries (based on past incidents). All other teams had to ask a central DBA team to build stored procedures for any interaction with the database. If you think that this would create a huge backlog, you are correct... Non critical updates also needed to be coordinated with a "release train" where the code had to be ready 2…

Yeah I guess I was too inexperienced at the time to ask how well it worked... but I guess like your experience, there would have been a fair backlog.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#283
post #92
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing you‘re a CTO, I‘m a bit concerned for your staff (if any) if your first reflex is blaming the developer for not trusting their boss.

The person is adversarial, that is clear in their comment. There's literal adversarial quotes like "only do X if good for you, otherwise do the opposite". On the other hand you went straight to googling a random commenters job and attacked that.

Every one of your sentences is an assertion presented as fact. That could also be considered adversarial. GP has replied in a constructive manner in the meantime btw.

And yeah, no googling involved. I often look in HN profiles to find more context to why people are writing what they write. I don’t stalk them, tbh I find it creepy when people from HN find me on X and DM me.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#284
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry to disappoint, but.. I don't want to hire you. I am a socialist, I find labor markets morally objectionable. The above is one reason, putting pursuit of profit above human excellence leads to mediocrity.

What benefit does excellence derive for the excellent then, other than feel-good bubbly feelings? If labor cannot differentiate itself then collectively it will do the minimum acceptable and everybody will be mediocre (unless autism).

> What benefit does excellence derive for the excellent then, other than feel-good bubbly feelings?

Ultimately anything can only give you feelings. I don't understand what else would you expect from (pursuing) being excellent (just to clarify, I define "being excellent" here as being extremely skilled at some ex ante selected task or creative process; both individuals and organizations can have that property).

But I get what you're saying. You feel like being excellent should give you money, fame and ladies. But you can get these things without being excellent. At some point, being excellent is a burden, and it's irrational to pursue it if you have those goals (of money, fame, etc.). (Someone else said in this thread that they want "a credit" for the excellence. Well if you want that, you don't need to be excellent, you just need to be good at pretending that you're, in front of people who you ask for the credit.)

Now, corporations (and private companies in general) are setup to pursuit profit, not excellency. If excellency gets in the way of profit, and mediocrity is sufficient, they won't pursue excellency, regardless what the individuals in those companies want. That's organizational laziness. Note that organizational laziness is rational (and we teach it to MBAs), because rationality only ever makes sense with respect to your goals (which here is pursuit of profit, not of excellency). But that also means, rationality is never gonna tell you which goals you should pursue. Therefore, to decide to want excellency will always be an inherently irrational act (therefore, you only do it for good feelings).

The point of the second comment I made was that yes, some people choose to build mediocre (capitalist) organizations (based on profit maximization and labor market) in pursuit of organizational excellency. To me as a socialist, this is a foolish mistake. If you're interested in excellency, you should build organizations of peers (like cooperatives) who intrinsically share that goal, not subordinates who have to be motivated extrinsically. I should also note, every organization will get parasites who have different goals, like work for less effort. Unless these people are somehow a burden on the goal of excellency, they are less problematic in organizations that pursue excellency than in capitalist organizations that pursue profit. Therefore, the organizations where the excellency maximization is a goal may seem to be collectively less efficient (more wasteful) than those where profit maximization is a goal. Again, this comes from the fact that being excellent is not necessarily the optimal way to pursue an extrinsic goal, such as profit.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#286
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call it (doing the bare minimum required) "organizational laziness" and I hate it. It might be rational, but it leads to mediocrity.

Starts at the top. Lazy pay, lazy perks -> lazy workers.

Not just at the top, you have to go higher than that. It starts with the idea that the market success always leads to excellency.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#287

There's massive caveat with all of these "and then the story ends because we didn't just ship it :(" stories: sometimes the value of the "app" you're working on is in the technical details that cannot really be "hastened" and you can't "just ship it". Also, and this is something a lot of the managerial class people don't want to hear: Your job as a sw engineer/architect is to resist the "just ship it" pressure from t…

> it is NOT your job to make sure the company is the most profitable it can be. Your job is to create great software.

Your job is to create great software for the company and your definition of great software is therefore defined by the company.

> . What's great software? The kind you'd be willing to put on your resume without feeling bad.

If your idea of a good CV is one where you can say "I deliberately made the following companies less money than I could have: ..." then I'm not sure who you're applying to with confidence.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#288

Author here! I need to update this article. Years later, I actually got motivated by the comments on HN (whenever this gets posted). P People are always like "why don't you just ship your app?" ... so I did! I'm happy I went through with and it's way WAY better than any competitor in this category Check it out at https://benji.so (landing page is still w.i.p)

The landing page lags my browser. How is that even possible - it's a splash screen with a few images. What on earth are you doing on that page.

The author complains about the bloated web and then proceeds to do the exact same thing with his landing page

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#289

I have a loose product idea. I guess the difference between some ideas and others is in prototyping. My prototype works. The issue is that the market for the product is like maybe 600 people global. And its not just code thats required, but plastic injection moulding, hardware manufacturing etc.

How do you know it's 600? what would be the sale price? Sometimes with a little modification, a hw product can work in multiple b2b verticals ;) Ive done a few products myself with injection molding, production pcbs, etc. and it's amazing how different customers look at it and ask for different features.

Super niche, combines 2-3 other products that are individually expensive and dont have any real reason to be together.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#290
post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call it (doing the bare minimum required) "organizational laziness" and I hate it. It might be rational, but it leads to mediocrity.

OK, hire me, and if I over-perform and help you achieve a business target, I want a triple salary next month. Or better still, 20% of the extra profit. No? Then you'll keep seeing what you call "mediocrity". I am a pretty good programmer and have literally saved businesses, several times over the course of my career. Never again though. A pat on the back is not enough of a reward.

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