The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020) • Hacker News Board

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#251

Post by segfaltnh » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 5:22 PM UTC

pdimitar wrote: post #205

throwaway84751 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like a toxic workplace, but you should do yourself a big favor and try to put that behind you. If you keep that mindset in your new job, your perspective will be negative and you risk burning out. If you work at a traditional workplace, think of yourself as a professional. Do the best work you can during business hours, without ruining your health. The company is paying you to make decisions that are best f…

> It sounds like a toxic workplace Like most workplaces on the planet. Check your bubble. I agree with your advice but you have to understand that many people start families and that tilts the table in favor of the employer; people become very risk-averse and dare not refuse anything. This is a fact and it's happening every second to dozens, if not hundreds, of millions of people out there. > Unfortunately there are…

Is it the reality of most software engineers though? I recognize I live in a wealthy part of a wealthy country, but it hasn't been particular hard to be an SWE, I live well below my means.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#252

Post by DidYaWipe » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 5:22 PM UTC

jezek2 wrote: post #247

DidYaWipe wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for the advice! I did run a somewhat similar app with essentially no API security on a cheap-ass Linode VPS around 2011. But we only had 10-20K users and those extremely sporadic. But, although users controlled their content, it was totally anonymous. I didn't require a single credential, not even an E-mail address. One thing about Supabase is that it's supposed to offer user verification through E-mail out of…

Depends on the application. I tend to have a single binary, you just need a language runtime and/or database, rarely some other software. You can script installation of this. I don't see how the containers add a value when you can do the same directly. The last time I've tried Docker to run some application it tried to overtake my testing VM and it failed miserably. Apparently it is not compatible with chroot and it…

If you create a single image you're supposed to be able to spin up new instances at will, on separate VPSes or on cloud providers.

I will depend on Deno, MariaDB, and probably S3 at the least. I was able to make an image with Deno and my code on it and get it working on my machine locally pretty quickly, which was exciting.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#253

Post by kkarakk » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 5:26 PM UTC

pdimitar wrote: post #205

throwaway84751 wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like a toxic workplace, but you should do yourself a big favor and try to put that behind you. If you keep that mindset in your new job, your perspective will be negative and you risk burning out. If you work at a traditional workplace, think of yourself as a professional. Do the best work you can during business hours, without ruining your health. The company is paying you to make decisions that are best f…

> It sounds like a toxic workplace Like most workplaces on the planet. Check your bubble. I agree with your advice but you have to understand that many people start families and that tilts the table in favor of the employer; people become very risk-averse and dare not refuse anything. This is a fact and it's happening every second to dozens, if not hundreds, of millions of people out there. > Unfortunately there are…

You just sound like you're venting and depressed tbh, if you're in STEM and working "paycheck to paycheck" then either there is a skills mismatch or you refuse to improve in some critical way that has been addressed to you already.

this reply goes for everyone complaining about jobs really, everyone has strengths and areas where they can grow- so focusing on these can lead to greater job satisfaction.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#254

Post by omerhac » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 5:35 PM UTC

Hahaha, laughed my ass off.

Can you name the largest factor to why you did not ship it? Is it fear? shyness? Thinking that you only have 1 chance with your clients?

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#255

Post by kkarakk » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 5:35 PM UTC

shepherdjerred wrote: post #240

vasco wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not true, I have many examples I've seen of people putting themselves second. Of course everyone has these thoughts and actions and needs to reflect and be self aware, but it's not true that everyone is just always out for themselves, in fact that's the type of world view that leads people into the wrong quadrant and it's a bit of a depressing world view. I think you understood exactly what I meant by wrong qu…

I'll drop in here and say that donating a kidney is an excellent relatively low risk thing you can do that has the power to transform someone's life. Here [0] is an excellent article telling one persons' story. [0]: https://www.astralcodexten.com/p/my-left-kidney

Last i researched, donating a kidney affects your quality of life extra-ordinarily. for eg you can't eat the same way, can't exercise/move around the same way and also you might have permanent complications from the surgery. i MIGHT consider it for a close relative but for a stranger? that would require some real mental gymnastics.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#256

Post by weweweoo » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 5:36 PM UTC

rustcleaner wrote: post #233

js8 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I call it (doing the bare minimum required) "organizational laziness" and I hate it. It might be rational, but it leads to mediocrity.

Starts at the top. Lazy pay, lazy perks -> lazy workers.

This. From worker's point of view it's irrational to work hard if the pay sucks. Good management should realize that, and demand less from underpaid workers. Embrace the culture of laziness, or pay a fair wage.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#257

Post by weweweoo » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 5:41 PM UTC

b112 wrote: post #190

piva00 wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And minimalist work ethic is a poor one, regardless of hand wavy, trumped up, rationalizations. That's a very protestant work ethic worldview. Doing what is expected from what you're being paid in the best way possible is not a poor work ethic, it's a pretty rational one. The other side of it where one always strive to do more, to go above and beyond what you're being compensated for, and so forth can also be a qui…

Trying to bring religion into this is beyond amusing. I guess the Japanese are all protestants? Hardly. And rationalizing poor behaviour by saying it's rational is another good one. Lastly, you're trying to shift the discussion by claiming "best way possible" as opposed to others saying "do the bare minimum". These are very often not the same. The problem is, people don't "get it". There are people in this thread pro…

What is seen as "good work ethic" is absolutely a cultural thing, and at least partially explains economic success (or lack of) in many countries. The Japanese aren't protestant, but they have other elements in their culture that encourage hard work as a virtue.

I take joy in projects that I actually find meaningful. Being an underpaid cog in the machine, working on JIRA tasks visioned by someone else isn't meaningful. Lack of adequate pay makes me feel underappreciated, and frankly destroys any motivation I could otherwise have. So no, I'm doing the bare minimum and don't feel bad about it. I treat my employer like it treats me, that's called justice.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#258

Post by vouwfietsman » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 5:46 PM UTC

Culonavirus wrote: post #118

vouwfietsman wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's worth repeating: Unless you have a stake in the company, it is NOT your job to make sure the company is the most profitable it can be. Your job is to create great software This is a terrible take, and one I generally see as a signal of lack of seniority in a software dev. It is absolutely everybody's job in the company to make sure it is profitable, unless you work for a non-profit. The thing is though, that p…

> absolutely everybody's job in the company to make sure it is profitable Absolutely and categorically it is not. That is complete nonsense. Why should an employee care? Unless there's some profit sharing scheme in place that would benefit the said employee and they took advantage of that scheme. And even then, employees typically (and I'd even say in the vast majority of cases) have very few and tiny levers to pull…

You're conflating work with responsibility. Let me ask you this: How many product managers does it take to make a product?

Its interesting that a lot of the replies here are railing against the idea that software devs are used as cogs in a machine, yet at the same time all replies are arguing that a dev should only be a cog in the machine, and any further context/awareness/action outside of being a cog should either not be expected or make the dev eligible for an outsized reward.

So to zoom in on your reply:

> Why should an employee care

Because they are paid to make the company profitable, and if they fail to do so they may not continue to be employed. I'm not sure why this is controversial. This requires no profit sharing to be in place, because it is simply the job that is required of the employee. It is probably by far the most general description of a job that is not: "the thing you do for money".

It may very well appear that the employee has no direct influence on company profitability, but since this is nearly impossible to measure objectively the next best thing is to try to make sure that he or she does by listening to signals coming down the hierarchy of management. Your PO telling you to hack a thing together is such a signal, and should be listened to. You warning about a giant pile of tech debt is a signal you should send to your PO, that he/she should listen to.

This is all absolutely trivial.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#259

Post by pdimitar » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 5:49 PM UTC

segfaltnh wrote: post #251

pdimitar wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It sounds like a toxic workplace Like most workplaces on the planet. Check your bubble. I agree with your advice but you have to understand that many people start families and that tilts the table in favor of the employer; people become very risk-averse and dare not refuse anything. This is a fact and it's happening every second to dozens, if not hundreds, of millions of people out there. > Unfortunately there are…

Is it the reality of most software engineers though? I recognize I live in a wealthy part of a wealthy country, but it hasn't been particular hard to be an SWE, I live well below my means.

You live alone? I have a family. That introduces a rather big difference in monthly expenses.

Re: The saddest "Just Ship It" story ever (2020)

#260

Post by pdimitar » Thu, Jul 04, 2024, 5:49 PM UTC

kkarakk wrote: post #253

pdimitar wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It sounds like a toxic workplace Like most workplaces on the planet. Check your bubble. I agree with your advice but you have to understand that many people start families and that tilts the table in favor of the employer; people become very risk-averse and dare not refuse anything. This is a fact and it's happening every second to dozens, if not hundreds, of millions of people out there. > Unfortunately there are…

You just sound like you're venting and depressed tbh, if you're in STEM and working "paycheck to paycheck" then either there is a skills mismatch or you refuse to improve in some critical way that has been addressed to you already. this reply goes for everyone complaining about jobs really, everyone has strengths and areas where they can grow- so focusing on these can lead to greater job satisfaction.

Thanks for your assumptions.